March 2005 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Cetol and epoxy
by Larry E Yake 06 Mar '05

06 Mar '05

Does anyone out there have any experience using Cetol over epoxy coated wood? I don't mean to stir up the Cetol debate, but I'm just wondering if the combination works or if there are adhesion or coloration issues. I seem to recall reading that Cetol was meant to be used only on bare wood, but I would like to seal the plywood I'm using with epoxy first. Thanks, Larry Yake M17, #200

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Re: M_Boats: Working, working, cruising, cruising - long
by chbenneck＠juno.com 06 Mar '05

06 Mar '05

Hi Gordon, Thanks for the idea of photos, charts and souvenirs. As for nautical charts, years ago I thought about writing an article for CRUISING or some other magazine, the main idea being: "A Lifetime of Sailing Weights 63.2 Pounds" It would have gone into details of how you accumulate 63.2 pounds of charts over 50 years. My Charts cover: the Stockholm archipelago; Danish islands and the Baltic the Elbe River and Kiel canal the Netherlands, Isselmeer, inland canals and coast Dutch, Belgian and French inland waterways the English Channel - Belgian, French and British ports the Seine Elba and Corsica in the Med. plus the Italian coast to Porto Fino the Adriatic: Italian coast and Yugoslavian coasts New England.......... New York to Boston and beyond It becomes quite a collection over time, as do the all the Sailing Instructions; Light Lists; Tide Tables, plus book listing maritime expressions in English, French, German, Italian, Spanish, so that you can make yourself understood in the other country. To shake up the natives, my dinghy has a Plimsoll mark on each side. Connie

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Re: M_Boats: Working, working, cruising, cruising - long
by chbenneck＠juno.com 06 Mar '05

06 Mar '05

Hi Gordon, Your suggestion about writing a book has met with enthusiastic support from the Admirable. I've started a file and am dropping in remembrances as we rethink and recall our experiences. ~~~~~~~~~ In Germany; German sailors have a strong belief in the Klabautermann - Father Neptune - if you will. Prior to departing on a voyage a small glass of schnapps is ceremoniously poured into the water for the Klabautermann; to make certain that he is happy and thereby insure a safe and uneventful voyage. We are sailing in the Adriatic. Mid summer. Not a breath of wind. Water surface like a mirror reflecting the few small clouds in the sky. We are about three miles off shore at the end of the Istrian Peninsula, having gotten there under power from Pula. Nothing around us; no other vessel within a mile of us. It's 90 degrees: no ice; and the beer in the bilge is warm. So, I put 6 bottles of beer (Pivo; in Yugoslavian) from a cardboard carrier in a net; tied a line around the net opening; closed it tightly; then lower it down about 30 meters where the water was a bit cooler. The family strips off bathing suits and jumps overboard to cool off by swimming around the boat. No sense in sitting around in wet bathing suits after a swim. An hour later, I pull up my line, the net and the beer bottles. The beer has cooled off, but, instead of 6 bottles in the net there are now only 5! How did one bottle disappear from a well closed net? Still nobody anywhere near us; no other boats; no scuba divers .............. No cut in the net; everything in proper order, with the line tied with the same knot I had made prior to lowering it. It has to be the Klabautermann collecting his dues. There is no other explanation. Having sailed in Germany for years: I believed it! ~~~~~~~~~~~ In Connecticut, the world is still all white; OAT is about 32 degrees (a heat wave after days of 14 degrees temperatures), and poor LEPPO is sitting out in the snow with the snow up over the trailer tires. BUT SPRING WILL COME! Think Spring and sailing! Connie

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Re: M_Boats: Where to place Tell-Tales on M15 Main
by Doug Kelch 05 Mar '05

05 Mar '05

Norm, The last time I bought new sails the sailmaker put them on the leach at the top of the batten slot. They are very useful there and if you want to see why go to: http://www.northsails.co.uk/media/fast/mainsail/step1.htm then page down to the second page and click on flow. You will see the telltale flowing off of the leech. This is a great sail tuning site with animation. Thanks Doug Kelch "Seas the Day" --- Norm Bundek <nbundek(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > I'm about to put tell-tales on my main which has > three battens. Do the tell-tales go above, below or > on the battens (6 -12" in from leech)? The battens > split the sail into thirds. > > Norm > M15 #172 > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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Where to place Tell-Tales on M15 Main
by Norm Bundek 04 Mar '05

04 Mar '05

I'm about to put tell-tales on my main which has three battens. Do the tell-tales go above, below or on the battens (6 -12" in from leech)? The battens split the sail into thirds. Norm M15 #172

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Re: RE: M_Boats: Question 1, Randy's bungs
by tynerjr＠gmpexpress.net 04 Mar '05

04 Mar '05

----------------------------------------------------------- Use http://www.onspeed.com/?A=web2mail to transform dial up connections to near broadband speed. Reccomended by Web2Mail ----------------------------------------------------------- That would make sense; my M-15 (#412) has ID number MMP15412B888, or a Feb. '88 built '88 model. #411 are you out there? Until recently I was unaware boat model years started, like cars, before the calendar year. John Tyner M-15 #412 "Chimpanzee" > Perhaps the "1" before the 7 is actually the letter I. That would mean your boat was built in September (I is the 9th letter) of 1987. The last two digits, 88, mean that your boat is a 1988 model. > > On a fun note. We desert dwellers are planning a Monty outing at Roosevelt Lake (the water is up after all the rains we've had) for the weekend of the 12th. Should be about 4 of us. Steve Eshelman says he has a new camera and will take pictures. > > Diane > M-15 #625 > High Barbaree > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >

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RE: M_Boats: Question 1, Randy's bungs
by DKerr4023＠aol.com 04 Mar '05

04 Mar '05

Perhaps the "1" before the 7 is actually the letter I. That would mean your boat was built in September (I is the 9th letter) of 1987. The last two digits, 88, mean that your boat is a 1988 model. On a fun note. We desert dwellers are planning a Monty outing at Roosevelt Lake (the water is up after all the rains we've had) for the weekend of the 12th. Should be about 4 of us. Steve Eshelman says he has a new camera and will take pictures. Diane M-15 #625 High Barbaree

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RE: M_Boats: Question 1, Randy's bungs
by RandyG 04 Mar '05

04 Mar '05

Hi Rick, You made an interesting point! I've been trying to decipher the hull number of our M15. MMP154071788 The part that doesn't match the examples on the MSOG web site is the month & year value "1788". The original title for our boat lists it as a 1988 model, and the hull # 407 fits with 1988. But the "1" & "7" are a mystery. Our M17 hull number fits the model. Hull #410, A=January, 888 = 1988 MMP17410A888 Thanks for all the great information. Randy Graves ________________________________ From: montgomery_boats-bounces+randyg=cite.nic.edu(a)mailman.xmission.com on behalf of Rick Langer Sent: Thu 3/3/2005 7:52 AM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Question 1, Randy's bungs Randy, I made hand rails that bolt to the teak hatch slide covers, using the existing holes. I decided to leave the bungs in until I got the cover off the boat and then knock them out by diving the bolt from the nut side. That part worked just fine. A harder task was getting the nuts off without access to the screw heads. Most of the nuts came right off because the screw heads were glued in place, probably from the bung glue. There were three nuts that just spun the bolts. For these I grabbed the bolt tip with vise grips and backed out the nuts as far as I could. I then cut off the bolt tip that I just destroyed with the vise grips, so it wouldn't bind the nut. Next I wedged a flat screwdriver under the washer behind the nut and pried as I backed out the nut. A lot of pressure can be put on the bolt this way and although the screw head may slip some, it will grab enough to get the nut off, by applying more leverage and synchronizing the pull on the screwdriver and the spin of the racket wrench. If you run into any really stubborn nuts you can always go to the drill and chisel method, but the way the bungs are on the curved part of the toe rail, I would be afraid of doing some serious damage to it with a chisel. Rick Langer M15 #337 p.s. Hey Randy, noticing the hull numbers of your two boats, I would expect they were both in the factory at the same time. What's the chances of two boats starting out in the same place, traveling in different directions and ending up in the same driveway twenty years later._______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Re: M_Boats: M17 Kick-up rudder
by Larry E Yake 03 Mar '05

03 Mar '05

After looking at the pictures of your rudder, Craig, I understand your question. On your rudder, the cheekplates are secured to the blade and pivot around the bottom of the rudder head. On mine, the cheekplates are secured to the rudder head and the blade pivots inside the plates. So, the bottom pintle is able to be secured directly through the cheek plates and rudder head. Larry On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 21:51:10 -0500 "Craig F. Honshell" <chonshell(a)ia4u.net> writes: > > Sweet rudder, Larry . . . How is the bottom pintle attached to the > cheekplates? The > blade has to pivot between the pintle bolts, doesn't it? Yours > looks like a > better-thought-out setup than mine, depicted on the MSOG site . . . > My biggest > problem is that I don't have a really effective "uphaul" system, as > you describe > below . . . As I've told Dick Straubel, my current uphaul system > works, but is a > rather "Rube-Goldberg-esque" contrivance, rather than a > well-thought-out process > engineered into the design. --Craig > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Larry E Yake > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 10:24 AM > Subject: M17 Kick-up rudder > > The rudder blade is held down by cinching up and cleating off the > line on > the front of the rudder. On impact, the cleat releases and allows > the > blade to pivot on the bolt. You then just tighten that line back up > to > pull the blade back down, cleat it, on you're on your way. > Larry > > On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 07:11:55 -0600 "Gilbert Landin" > <gilbert(a)mindgame.com> > writes: > > Randys pictures sure look good. It just seems the one tension bolt > would > make it hard for the bottom part to stay horizontal on a good > sail. > > gil > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry E Yake" <leyake(a)juno.com> > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 11:20 PM > Subject: M17 Kick-up rudder > > My new kick-up rudder from Ida Sailor arrived this week. I'm > impressed. > It fits perfect and the workmanship is top notch. Can't wait for > spring > to try it out. All I have to do is drill the tiller pivot bolt > hole, > since I'm using my old tiller. Randy Graves added some pictures of > it to > his website at http://sailing.gravesfam.us . It has some custom > modifications to fit my non-standard gudgeons, and I had the > optional > releasing jam cleat added, but the basic design will be the same > for the > standard M17 setup. > > Larry Yake > M17 #200 > Tullamore > "In a power boat you get there faster. > In a sailboat you're already there." > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >

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Re: FW: M_Boats: M17 Kick-up rudder
by Larry E Yake 03 Mar '05

03 Mar '05

Howard, The small notch you refer to in the rudder blade behind the skeg is a non-standard modification for my boat. My gudgeons are different from the stock model and the pintles are only 3/4 inch from the transom when inserted. That didn't leave enough room for the forward stepped leading edge of the blade to clear the transom, hence the "notch". The "balanced" feature of the blade is similar to my original rudder, which was the way Lyle Hess designed them, before the rudders were redesigned to be raisable. It is a very sweet handling high performance rudder, not much weather helm (dependent on your rigging), but not "dead" at all to my way of thinking. I hope the new kick-up blade performs the same. Larry On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:09:42 -0600 Howard Audsley <haudsley(a)tranquility.net> writes: > > > Offhand, I can't imagine how a line through a cleat is going to > release on > it's own, but I'm sure it must. I'd like to see how that works. The > concept > of a line releasing from a cleat on it's own just doesn't seem > right. > > I'm aware of one such kick-up rudder design, where the rudder blade > pivots > on a bolt or pin at the aft edge of the rudder. On the forward edge > of the > rudder is a spring loaded pin that has enough friction/force to hold > the > rudder in place during normal loads. The pin is on the top half of > the > rudder. Right above that is cam on the bottom half...the part in the > water. > In this design, an impact has enough leverage aft to force the small > cam on > the rudders blade to push the pin out and release the rudder blade > to pivot > out of the water . You then use a line like you describe to reset > it > forward. Normally, there isn't any tension on the line, which just > hangs > loose. > > For those who frequently encounter shallow water and groundings, > this could > be a really good deal, as a severe grounding with a stock rudder can > damage > the rudder, the rudder pin and if bad enough, the transom too. > > I also notice the foil of the new rudder extends forward under the > skeg, > giving a more balanced rudder design. Curious to see how this is > going to > affect weather helm and the "feel" of the tiller. Hopefully, it is > only > partially balanced and not "dead". Also curious to see how that > small notch > at the aft end of the skeg affects drag, if any. It is below the > waterline > and in a turbulent flow area. It may turn out to be a great > improvement. > Just curious to see how it turns out. > > And lastly, I'd be curious to see if you can steer with the rudder > kicked > up. As in what happens when you find yourself sailing in 20 inches > of water? > Will it still steer the boat without damaging the rudder? > > Howard > M17, #278 > > > ------ Forwarded Message > From: Larry E Yake <leyake(a)juno.com> > Reply-To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 07:24:50 -0800 > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 Kick-up rudder > > The rudder blade is held down by cinching up and cleating off the > line on > the front of the rudder. On impact, the cleat releases and allows > the > blade to pivot on the bolt. You then just tighten that line back up > to > pull the blade back down, cleat it, on you're on your way. > Larry > > On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 07:11:55 -0600 "Gilbert Landin" > <gilbert(a)mindgame.com> > writes: > > Randys pictures sure look good. It just seems the one tension > bolt > > would > > make it hard for the bottom part to stay horizontal on a good > sail. > > > > gil > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Larry E Yake" <leyake(a)juno.com> > > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 11:20 PM > > Subject: M_Boats: M17 Kick-up rudder > > > > > > > My new kick-up rudder from Ida Sailor arrived this week. I'm > > impressed. > > > It fits perfect and the workmanship is top notch. Can't wait > for > > spring > > > to try it out. All I have to do is drill the tiller pivot bolt > > hole, > > > since I'm using my old tiller. Randy Graves added some pictures > of > > it to > > > his website at http://sailing.gravesfam.us . It has some > custom > > > modifications to fit my non-standard gudgeons, and I had the > > optional > > > releasing jam cleat added, but the basic design will be the > same > > for the > > > standard M17 setup. > > > > > > Larry Yake > > > M17 #200 > > > Tullamore > > > "In a power boat you get there faster. > > > In a sailboat you're already there." > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > ------ End of Forwarded Message > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >

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