Re: [math-fun] The True Tau Day(s)
Greg Huber <greg.huber@czbiohub.org> wrote:
c'mon people, seriously, grow up -- there's no need to throw away another Greek letter, 'cause they ain't making any new ones!)
There are lots of other alphabets. I suggest using the whole of Unicode for the names of mathematical constants. Some upgrades to Mathematica may be necessary. Last month Randall Munroe discovered that raising an emoji to an emoji power will crash Mathematica.
As an undergrad at MIT, I learned a math symbol that math profs there used often: a backwards pitchfork for "such that". It was pretty handy and used often. I don't remember if I've ever seen it used elsewhere and don't think I've ever seen it in tables of math symbols. If you connect the dots and shrink the picture, it looks something like this: * * * ********* * * * Are other people familiar with this? Does it have a name? Or maybe it was just something they used at MIT? (If so, is it still in use?) —Da
I remember seeing a symbol similar to this for "such that", but it wasn't a pitchfork. It was essentially a mirror-reversed set membership symbol. You can see it listed here, pretty much as I remember it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mathematical_symbols#Abbreviation_of_E... Tom Dan Asimov writes:
As an undergrad at MIT, I learned a math symbol that math profs there used often: a backwards pitchfork for "such that".
It was pretty handy and used often. I don't remember if I've ever seen it used elsewhere and don't think I've ever seen it in tables of math symbols. If you connect the dots and shrink the picture, it looks something like this:
* * * ********* * * *
Are other people familiar with this? Does it have a name? Or maybe it was just something they used at MIT? (If so, is it still in use?)
—Da
Could it maybe match the more rounded "Contains with Long Horizontal Stroke" Unicode character, https://unicode-table.com/en/22FA/ ? https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/309506/symbol-for-such-that-not-in-... says that Peano used this character without the long horizontal stroke for "such that"; maybe in someone's handwriting it could become the symbol above? But that wouldn't necessarily explain multiple professors using it. --Neil Bickford
A quick googling found that the laTeX name of this is \ni, being the mirror of \in (set membership). But that doesn't quite look like the symbol you show. Another take on it is a close paren with strikethrough. I always though it was derived from a mashup of a lower case s and a lower case t, with pieces of each removed. --ms On 18-Dec-20 14:21, Dan Asimov wrote:
As an undergrad at MIT, I learned a math symbol that math profs there used often: a backwards pitchfork for "such that".
It was pretty handy and used often. I don't remember if I've ever seen it used elsewhere and don't think I've ever seen it in tables of math symbols. If you connect the dots and shrink the picture, it looks something like this:
* * * ********* * * *
Are other people familiar with this? Does it have a name? Or maybe it was just something they used at MIT? (If so, is it still in use?)
—Da _______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
I have used it every since college, but I understood it to be more of a backwards epsilon than a pitchfork; not quite as elongated as a backwards "is an element of". A standard joke was (written as symbols) For every upsidedown A there exists backwards E such that backwards epsilon implies right arrow. -----Original Message----- From: math-fun <math-fun-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dan Asimov Sent: Friday, December 18, 2020 12:22 PM To: math-fun <math-fun@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [math-fun] Such-that symbol As an undergrad at MIT, I learned a math symbol that math profs there used often: a backwards pitchfork for "such that". It was pretty handy and used often. I don't remember if I've ever seen it used elsewhere and don't think I've ever seen it in tables of math symbols. If you connect the dots and shrink the picture, it looks something like this: * * * ********* * * * Are other people familiar with this? Does it have a name? Or maybe it was just something they used at MIT? (If so, is it still in use?) —Da _______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
That is, the "lunate" epsilon, not the lower case (script) epsilon. -----Original Message----- From: math-fun <math-fun-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Cordwell, William R via math-fun Sent: Friday, December 18, 2020 12:46 PM To: math-fun <math-fun@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [math-fun] [EXTERNAL] Such-that symbol I have used it every since college, but I understood it to be more of a backwards epsilon than a pitchfork; not quite as elongated as a backwards "is an element of". A standard joke was (written as symbols) For every upsidedown A there exists backwards E such that backwards epsilon implies right arrow. -----Original Message----- From: math-fun <math-fun-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dan Asimov Sent: Friday, December 18, 2020 12:22 PM To: math-fun <math-fun@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [math-fun] Such-that symbol As an undergrad at MIT, I learned a math symbol that math profs there used often: a backwards pitchfork for "such that". It was pretty handy and used often. I don't remember if I've ever seen it used elsewhere and don't think I've ever seen it in tables of math symbols. If you connect the dots and shrink the picture, it looks something like this: * * * ********* * * * Are other people familiar with this? Does it have a name? Or maybe it was just something they used at MIT? (If so, is it still in use?) —Da _______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun _______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
I'm pretty sure the "pitchfork" image is just the result of writing \ni quickly on a blackboard. On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 12:48 PM Cordwell, William R via math-fun < math-fun@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
That is, the "lunate" epsilon, not the lower case (script) epsilon.
-----Original Message----- From: math-fun <math-fun-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Cordwell, William R via math-fun Sent: Friday, December 18, 2020 12:46 PM To: math-fun <math-fun@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [math-fun] [EXTERNAL] Such-that symbol
I have used it every since college, but I understood it to be more of a backwards epsilon than a pitchfork; not quite as elongated as a backwards "is an element of". A standard joke was (written as symbols) For every upsidedown A there exists backwards E such that backwards epsilon implies right arrow.
-----Original Message----- From: math-fun <math-fun-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dan Asimov Sent: Friday, December 18, 2020 12:22 PM To: math-fun <math-fun@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [math-fun] Such-that symbol
As an undergrad at MIT, I learned a math symbol that math profs there used often: a backwards pitchfork for "such that".
It was pretty handy and used often. I don't remember if I've ever seen it used elsewhere and don't think I've ever seen it in tables of math symbols. If you connect the dots and shrink the picture, it looks something like this:
* * * ********* * * *
Are other people familiar with this? Does it have a name? Or maybe it was just something they used at MIT? (If so, is it still in use?)
—Da _______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun _______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun _______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
Are mathematicians The Knights Who Write \ni? Jim Propp On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 3:40 PM Michael Collins <mjcollins10@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm pretty sure the "pitchfork" image is just the result of writing \ni quickly on a blackboard.
On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 12:48 PM Cordwell, William R via math-fun < math-fun@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
That is, the "lunate" epsilon, not the lower case (script) epsilon.
-----Original Message----- From: math-fun <math-fun-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Cordwell, William R via math-fun Sent: Friday, December 18, 2020 12:46 PM To: math-fun <math-fun@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [math-fun] [EXTERNAL] Such-that symbol
I have used it every since college, but I understood it to be more of a backwards epsilon than a pitchfork; not quite as elongated as a backwards "is an element of". A standard joke was (written as symbols) For every upsidedown A there exists backwards E such that backwards epsilon implies right arrow.
-----Original Message----- From: math-fun <math-fun-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dan Asimov Sent: Friday, December 18, 2020 12:22 PM To: math-fun <math-fun@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [math-fun] Such-that symbol
As an undergrad at MIT, I learned a math symbol that math profs there used often: a backwards pitchfork for "such that".
It was pretty handy and used often. I don't remember if I've ever seen it used elsewhere and don't think I've ever seen it in tables of math symbols. If you connect the dots and shrink the picture, it looks something like this:
* * * ********* * * *
Are other people familiar with this? Does it have a name? Or maybe it was just something they used at MIT? (If so, is it still in use?)
—Da _______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun _______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun _______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
_______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
It certainly looks as if that's how it started. But maybe the long stroke to the right evolved to distinguish it from the reverse membership symbol. —Dan
On Friday/18December/2020, at 12:25 PM, Michael Collins <mjcollins10@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm pretty sure the "pitchfork" image is just the result of writing \ni quickly on a blackboard.
FWIW, I use (and suggest) latex : \mid for "such that". On Fri, 18 Dec 2020, 15:22 Dan Asimov, <asimov@msri.org> wrote:
As an undergrad at MIT, I learned a math symbol that math profs there used often: a backwards pitchfork for "such that".
It was pretty handy and used often. I don't remember if I've ever seen it used elsewhere and don't think I've ever seen it in tables of math symbols. If you connect the dots and shrink the picture, it looks something like this:
Very standard for set-builder definitions such as: { form | condition } The abbreviation S.T. should also be fine. Slightly more infuriating is the upside down question mark. ¿Why is this necessary? And ¿what the Hell is Kristen trying to say (before totally disappearing into thin air? <<I am just a stranger to u, or well known. ¿Which is it ? In the middle path of nov 2 2020 seeing clearly at...¿Nothing too clearly ?¿¿ Maybe it's time to write ur own next vow for what YOU want >> Translation: “Congratulations on yr dissertation Brad! Yr homeless now.” Cheers, —Brad
On Dec 18, 2020, at 5:19 PM, Maximilian Hasler <Maximilian.Hasler@martinique.univ-ag.fr> wrote:
FWIW, I use (and suggest) latex : \mid for "such that".
On Fri, 18 Dec 2020, 15:22 Dan Asimov, <asimov@msri.org> wrote:
As an undergrad at MIT, I learned a math symbol that math profs there used often: a backwards pitchfork for "such that".
It was pretty handy and used often. I don't remember if I've ever seen it used elsewhere and don't think I've ever seen it in tables of math symbols. If you connect the dots and shrink the picture, it looks something like this:
_______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
While we are on the subject of confusing notation, did anyone else ever see the sad war video for Kamikaze, and then wonder why the half naked singer/dancer shatter artist would ever call herself MØ as in "M empty set"? Ha hA HA ha.
Check wikipedia, Ø is actually a letter in Danish, as in Ørsted, duh Brad, it's not all a math world.
But then in the video the frontispiece is an upside down Sha (Ш) followed by a captial Φ. ¿Huh? Some things these arty Euro-girls think up, I will never claim to understand. --Brad On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 9:04 PM Brad Klee <bradklee@gmail.com> wrote:
Very standard for set-builder definitions such as:
{ form | condition }
The abbreviation S.T. should also be fine.
Slightly more infuriating is the upside down question mark.
¿Why is this necessary? And ¿what the Hell is Kristen trying to say (before totally disappearing into thin air?
<<I am just a stranger to u, or well known. ¿Which is it ? In the middle path of nov 2 2020 seeing clearly at...¿Nothing too clearly ?¿¿ Maybe it's time to write ur own next vow for what YOU want >>
Translation: “Congratulations on yr dissertation Brad! Yr homeless now.”
Cheers,
—Brad
On Dec 18, 2020, at 5:19 PM, Maximilian Hasler < Maximilian.Hasler@martinique.univ-ag.fr> wrote:
FWIW, I use (and suggest) latex : \mid for "such that".
On Fri, 18 Dec 2020, 15:22 Dan Asimov, <asimov@msri.org> wrote:
As an undergrad at MIT, I learned a math symbol that math profs there used often: a backwards pitchfork for "such that".
It was pretty handy and used often. I don't remember if I've ever seen it used elsewhere and don't think I've ever seen it in tables of math symbols. If you connect the dots and shrink the picture, it looks something like this:
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Hihi, all - Those letters both look cyrillic (at least in the e-mail), the first is a “sh” sound, the second an “f” (like Greek phi, which is where cyrillic came from) More later, Chris Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 20, 2020, at 14:24, Brad Klee <bradklee@gmail.com> wrote:
While we are on the subject of confusing notation, did anyone else ever see the sad war video for Kamikaze, and then wonder why the half naked singer/dancer shatter artist would ever call herself MØ as in "M empty set"? Ha hA HA ha.
Check wikipedia, Ø is actually a letter in Danish, as in Ørsted, duh Brad, it's not all a math world.
But then in the video the frontispiece is an upside down Sha (Ш) followed by a captial Φ. ¿Huh?
Some things these arty Euro-girls think up, I will never claim to understand.
--Brad
On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 9:04 PM Brad Klee <bradklee@gmail.com> wrote:
Very standard for set-builder definitions such as:
{ form | condition }
The abbreviation S.T. should also be fine.
Slightly more infuriating is the upside down question mark.
¿Why is this necessary? And ¿what the Hell is Kristen trying to say (before totally disappearing into thin air?
<<I am just a stranger to u, or well known. ¿Which is it ? In the middle path of nov 2 2020 seeing clearly at...¿Nothing too clearly ?¿¿ Maybe it's time to write ur own next vow for what YOU want >>
Translation: “Congratulations on yr dissertation Brad! Yr homeless now.”
Cheers,
—Brad
On Dec 18, 2020, at 5:19 PM, Maximilian Hasler < Maximilian.Hasler@martinique.univ-ag.fr> wrote:
FWIW, I use (and suggest) latex : \mid for "such that".
On Fri, 18 Dec 2020, 15:22 Dan Asimov, <asimov@msri.org> wrote:
As an undergrad at MIT, I learned a math symbol that math profs there used often: a backwards pitchfork for "such that".
It was pretty handy and used often. I don't remember if I've ever seen it used elsewhere and don't think I've ever seen it in tables of math symbols. If you connect the dots and shrink the picture, it looks something like this:
math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
I think that Cyrillic letter in particular dates at least back to the Phoenician alphabet and maybe even to Egyptian hieroglyphics. Its relatives are found in the Hebrew and Arabic alphabets. See e.g.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin_(letter) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin_(letter)#Arabic_%C5%A1%C4%ABn/s%C4%ABn>>. —Dan
On Sunday/20December/2020, at 4:17 PM, Christopher Landauer <topcycal@gmail.com> wrote:
Those letters both look cyrillic (at least in the e-mail), the first is a “sh” sound, the second an “f” (like Greek phi, which is where cyrillic came from)
See also: https://issuu.com/polinecia/docs/the_geography_of_the_imagination/52 On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 6:52 PM Dan Asimov <dasimov@earthlink.net> wrote:
I think that Cyrillic letter in particular dates at least back to the Phoenician alphabet and maybe even to Egyptian hieroglyphics. Its relatives are found in the Hebrew and Arabic alphabets.
See e.g.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin_(letter) < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin_(letter)#Arabic_%C5%A1%C4%ABn/s%C4%ABn
.
—Dan
On Sunday/20December/2020, at 4:17 PM, Christopher Landauer < topcycal@gmail.com> wrote:
Those letters both look cyrillic (at least in the e-mail), the first is a “sh” sound, the second an “f” (like Greek phi, which is where cyrillic came from)
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Greg Huber wrote:
c'mon people, seriously, grow up -- there's no need to throw away another Greek letter, 'cause they ain't making any new ones!)
I don't know about "they", but *I'm* making up new ones. Specifically, ximega. Capital ximega is like capital xi, but with an extra horizontal bar; lower-case ximega is like lower-case xi, but with an extra loop. Jim Propp
participants (12)
-
Brad Klee -
Christopher Landauer -
Cordwell, William R -
Dan Asimov -
Dan Asimov -
James Propp -
Keith F. Lynch -
Maximilian Hasler -
Michael Collins -
Mike Speciner -
Neil Bickford -
Tom Karzes