Steve Witham wrote: ----- Mathematicians can think of (e.g.) numbers as real without embarrassment because we have found workable kinds of perfection to work towards. ----- I see numbers (and other mathematical constructs) as real for much the same reason as I see physics things as real: People all over the world have looked at these things and get the same reading. And I would fully expect that intelligent life anywhere else in the universe — should it exist — would get the very same reading of these things. —Dan