Re: [math-fun] big sunflowers
In one dimension, the phenomenon is called "aliasing". Basically, the sampling theorem _requires_ that all frequencies above 1/2 the sampling frequency be removed _completely_ prior to sampling, else you get aliasing of these higher frequencies down to lower frequencies during the process of reconstruction. In particular, frequencies just above 1/2 the sampling frequency become very low frequencies on reconstruction. In 2D these low frequencies are called Moire patterns. The reconstruction filter also has to be perfect (allow no frequencies above 1/2 the sampling frequency), else it may induce artifacts, as well. In practise, it is essentially impossible to achieve perfect pre-sampling and reconstruction filters, so there will always be small amounts of aliasing in practise. Also, human eyes & ears seem to tolerate very small amounts of aliasing in order to get slightly sharper results in the higher frequencies (but still below the filter cutoff frequency). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist%E2%80%93Shannon_sampling_theorem At 11:24 PM 3/21/2012, James Propp wrote:
Is there a good place to read about the mathematics of Moiré patterns?
Jim
On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 11:18 PM, Simon Plouffe <simon.plouffe@gmail.com>wrote:
Hello,
Yes, this is the pixel problem, it is caused by the square grid of the image made of pixels.
For example, when you draw lines that are close together on a pixel screen you get also Moiré patterns,
http://www.plouffe.fr/simon/**distributions%20modulo%201/** imagepages/image50.html<http://www.plouffe.fr/simon/distributions%20modulo%201/imagepages/image50.html>
Now the image of the sunflower and the Moiré is a mixed effect between the natural occuring spirals and the 'closeness' of the points which causes the pattern,
and of course : what is the formula or name of this pattern is a good question,
Best regards, Simon Plouffe
Le 22/03/2012 07:08, James Propp a écrit :
Back in September my friend Joshua Burton sent me this email. He and I and our mutual friend Michael Larsen exchanged a few emails about the phenomenon, but we never followed up:
http://www.cs.uml.edu/~jpropp/**sunflowers.html<http://www.cs.uml.edu/~jpropp/sunflowers.html>
(I'm sending the URL because one of the imbedded images is quite large.)
I asked Josh if it was okay to share this problem with others, and he replied: "By all means, share! The first to-do, I think, is to redo the work independently of the Mma engine, to confirm that the moire patterns are real, and not artifacts of some tool-specific rounding issue. If it's real, I guess the next thing is to come up with some numerical measure of the anomalous behavior of a big sunflower, as a function of N. That, or an actual clue what's going on."
Jim Propp
Just a very minor correction: frequencies just above half the sampling frequency get mirrored into *high* frequencies just under half the sampling frequency. Frequencies close to the sampling frequency get aliased into very low frequencies. On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 7:27 AM, Henry Baker <hbaker1@pipeline.com> wrote:
In particular, frequencies just above 1/2 the sampling frequency become very low frequencies on reconstruction.
I think we are all agreed that most of the visible aliasing we see in the 50,000-dot image is due to pixel quantization. But Dan Asimov argues that even if we could get rid of pixel quantization, we would still see some moire-like effects. If I understand his argument, he is saying that in each area of the phi-based sunflower, the array of dots approximates the vertices of a lattice of parallelograms; the axis vectors of this lattice distort slowly as you move to nearby areas, and occasionally snap to a different set of axes. He anticipates "phase transitions" between domains governed by different axis vectors, and expects that these transitions will appear as visible discontinuities. I agree (again, hedging that I might not be following Dan's thoughts correctly) that different regions have different natural coordinate systems, but I disagree that the transitions will be abrupt or visible. Instead, I expect them to shade into each other imperceptibly; along the borders between these domains there will be regions that appear ambiguous, where one will be able to choose semiconsciouly (as in the Necker illusion) which lattice one sees. On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Tom Rokicki <rokicki@gmail.com> wrote:
Just a very minor correction: frequencies just above half the sampling frequency get mirrored into *high* frequencies just under half the sampling frequency. Frequencies close to the sampling frequency get aliased into very low frequencies.
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 7:27 AM, Henry Baker <hbaker1@pipeline.com> wrote:
In particular, frequencies just above 1/2 the sampling frequency become very low frequencies on reconstruction.
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