RE: [math-fun] better posed problem?
<< of all k-subsets (including the empty subset) of the n-th roots of 1, say n= 0 to 20, 0>= k>=n, how many add to zero? 1, 1, 2, 2, 4, 2, 10, 2, 16, 8, 34, 2, 100, 2, 130, 38, 256, 2, 1000, 2, 1156 ...
Some patterns here look intriguing. Like f(2^n) = 2^(2^(n-1)) for one, and f(6n) = 10^n for another. Do these extend? --Dan
Some patterns here look intriguing. Like
f(2^n) = 2^(2^(n-1))
for one, and
f(6n) = 10^n
for another. Do these extend?
I'm doubtful about the second. But the first one does. Define Fn := the field extension of Q generated by a primitive n'th root of unity. (This is sometimes called the n'th cyclotomic field). And define wn := such a primitive root. Oh, and define Pn := the standard regular n-gon. Now consider any subset A of P(2n) that has sum 0. Partition its vertices into A0, the ones that also appear in Pn, and A1, the ones that also appear in wn*Pn. And let a0 := sum(A0) and a1 := sum(A1). On the one hand, we have a0+a1 = 0. On the other, a0 is an element of Fn and a1 is w(2n) times an element of Fn. Since w(2n) isn't in Fn, this is only possible if both elements are 0. That is, a0=a1=0. Hence A0 and A1 are both 0-sum subsets of P(n), the latter rotated a bit. The number of ways to do this is clearly the square of the number of 0-sum subsets of P(n). Hence our sequence obeys the relation u(2n) = u(n)^2. It's not hard to calculate u(2) :-), so we're done. Let's generalize. Let p be prime. Then consider a subset A of P(pn) with sum 0. Partition its vertices into A0, ..., A(p-1) and let a0, ..., a(p-1) be the sums of the subsets. Then we get a polynomial in w(pn), with coefficients in F(n), having degree at most p-1, equal to 0. Provided the degree of w(pn) over F(n) is p -- which is true sometimes but not always -- we can proceed as before. What is the degree of w(pn) over F(n)? It's the same as the degree of the field extension F(pn):F(n), and that in turn is phi(pn)/phi(n), which is p-1 if p doesn't divide n and p if p does divide n. So: Theorem: If p divides n, then u(pn) = u(n)^p. We'll be done if we can find u(n) when n is a product of distinct primes. I don't see how to do that right now, but I suspect it's not all that hard. (Famous last words.) -- g
I said:
We'll be done if we can find u(n) when n is a product of distinct primes. I don't see how to do that right now, but I suspect it's not all that hard. (Famous last words.)
Not-yet-proven observation: if p is an odd prime then u(2p) = 2^p+2. Explanation: The zero-sum configurations are all the antipodal ones (of which there are 2^p) and two regular p-gons (of which there are 2). Generalization: Let n = p1...pk, a product of distinct primes. Let A(j,k) consist of vertices k, k+n/pj, k+2n/pj, ..., k+(pj-1)n/pj. Clearly A(j,k) has sum 0. So does the union of any set of disjoint A(j,k). Conjecture: These are *all* the zero-sum configurations. That A(j,k) has sum 0 is trivial. So is the observation that the set of zero-sum sets is closed under disjoint unions. So we need "only" show that every zero-sum configuration arises in this way. Let A be any zero-sum configuration. If A contains any A(j,k) then A \ A(j,k) still has sum 0, so by induction on the size of A we may assume that A *doesn't* contain any A(j,k). Is there some obvious reason why in fact A must be empty? I don't see one. But let's return to the special case n=2m, m odd and squarefree. (We may need to restrict further to prime m; let's see.) Then the standard 2m-gon is composed of the standard m-gon and its negation. So suppose we have a 0-sum subset of that that isn't antipodal; that means we have two different subsets of the standard m-gon with equal sum. One way to do this is to find two with sum 0, and that's where the "regular p-gon" configurations mentioned above for n=2p come from. Is that all? It is when m=p, because otherwise we get two different monic polynomials of degree at most p-1 of which w(p) is a root, which is impossible since the degree of w(p) is p-1. That proves the observation above: u(2p) = 2^p+2. I have to go and do other things now. Anyone want to finish this off? :-) -- g
I said:
That proves the observation above: u(2p) = 2^p+2.
I have to go and do other things now. Anyone want to finish this off? :-)
Apparently not! I can prove a slight generalization: if p,q are distinct primes then u(pq) = 2^p+2^q-2. Proof: constructing that many 0-sum sets is easy: take any set of things mod p, add every multiple of q, giving 2^p sets; likewise with p,q interchanged, giving 2^q more; but we've counted {nothing} and {everything} twice, so we've found 2^p+2^q-2 different sets. It remains to show that that's all of them. As before, split any 0-sum set A into A(0), ..., A(p-1) according to the vertex number mod p. I'm claiming that we get two sorts of 0-sum set: ones where all the A(j) look the same, and ones where all the A(j) are either {nothing} or {everything}. Write a(j) = sum of A(j), and generally adopt the notation of my earlier comments. Then from a(0)+a(1)w+...+a(p-1)w^{p-1}=0 we see that w(pq) satisfies a polynomial of degree at most p-1 over F(q). The degree of w(pq) over F(q) is p-1, so this isn't terribly hard. But, aha, there's only one polynomial (up to multiplication of the whole thing by a constant) of degree p-1 with coeffs in F(q) of which w(pq) is a root. You can find it by taking the minimal polynomial for w(pq) and collecting together terms whose exponents are equal mod p. Hence, we have two possibilities. - Each a(j) could be 0. There are u(q)^p = 2^p ways to do this. - The a(j) could be proportional to the coefficients of the minimal polynomial of w(pq) over F(q). How can that second possibility actually occur? Let's suppose the following is true (which it is): - The only instance in which two subsets of P(q) have the same sum is the familiar one: {nothing} and {everything} both have sum 0. (Proof of this lemma: if two such subsets have equal sum then that gives us a polynomial of degree <= p-1, with coefficients in {-1,0,+1}, that vanishes at w(p); there is only one such polynomial even if we allow coefficients to be arbitrary rationals, namely 1+w+...+w^{p-1}; this indeed produces the sets {nothing} and {everything}.) Then pick any non-zero coefficient in that minimal polynomial; say it's the coefficient of w^j. Choose the set A(j) freely, except that it can't be {nothing} or {everything}; then all the other A(k) have known non-zero sum and there's therefore at most one choice for each. We're done, *provided* we always can find a choice for each other A(k). Well, the minimal polynomial of w(pq) is well known by those who know such things. I'm not really such a person, but Google knows everything (all hail Google!) and it turns out that the coefficients are always 0, +1 or -1. So all we need to know is that if any number is achievable as the sum of some vertices of P(q) then so its its negative, which is straightforward since the sum of *all* vertices of P(q) is 0. So, indeed, we are done, and u(pq) = 2^p+2^q-2 when p,q are distinct primes. Noting that the first n whose cyclotomic polynomial has coefficients other than -1,0,+1 is 105, I conjecture that u(105) might have a value one wouldn't predict from naive extrapolation from earlier values. Not that I'm sure what value one *would* predict from naive extrapolation. This all seems like harder work than it should be. Isn't there some straightforward line of attack that just does all values of n at once? :-) -- g
even the unlikely f(6n)= 10^n *seems* to hold : up to n=24: {1,1,2,2,4,2,10,2,16,8,34,2,100,2,130,38,256,2,1000,2,1156,134,2050,2,10000} this is as far as I can go. the rest is for educated folks. W. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gareth McCaughan" <gareth.mccaughan@pobox.com> To: <math-fun@mailman.xmission.com>; <dasimov@earthlink.net> Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [math-fun] better posed problem?
Some patterns here look intriguing. Like
f(2^n) = 2^(2^(n-1))
for one, and
f(6n) = 10^n
for another. Do these extend?
I'm doubtful about the second. But the first one does.
I claimed in an e-mail I just sent that u(2n) = u(n)^2 always. This, of course, was wrong. The relationship holds whenever n is even; there's no reason why it should be true otherwise. -- g
participants (3)
-
Daniel Asimov -
Gareth McCaughan -
wouter meeussen