[math-fun] Pronunciation question
According to the IPA rendering that appears at the beginning of the webpage for the mathematician DeBruijn ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaas_Govert_de_Bruijn) and the page on Dutch pronunciation that it links to, the final vowel in his surname should be pronounced like the “ou” in the Scottish English pronunciation of the word “house”. But I don’t speak Scottish English (though I occasionally speak a parodic version based on Monty Python skits and other less-than-definitive phonological resources). Is there a wensite that will let me type “Scottish English” into one field and “house” into another so I can hear what the vowel sounds like? I’ll be saying “DeBruijn” in a video and I want to get it as close to correct as I can. ... Though I’ve been advised that when it comes to pronouncing Dutch vowels it’s impossible for Americans to get it right, so the important thing is to say it in an American accent lest you mislead people into thinking your pronunciation is correct! Thanks, Jim Propp
Refer to the work of Rockingham, et al. for the canonical Scottish pronunciation of 'house' (and 'moose' and 'loose'): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jeu72y0f4Kc On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 15:35, James Propp <jamespropp@gmail.com> wrote:
According to the IPA rendering that appears at the beginning of the webpage for the mathematician DeBruijn ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaas_Govert_de_Bruijn) and the page on Dutch pronunciation that it links to, the final vowel in his surname should be pronounced like the “ou” in the Scottish English pronunciation of the word “house”. But I don’t speak Scottish English (though I occasionally speak a parodic version based on Monty Python skits and other less-than-definitive phonological resources). Is there a wensite that will let me type “Scottish English” into one field and “house” into another so I can hear what the vowel sounds like?
I’ll be saying “DeBruijn” in a video and I want to get it as close to correct as I can.
... Though I’ve been advised that when it comes to pronouncing Dutch vowels it’s impossible for Americans to get it right, so the important thing is to say it in an American accent lest you mislead people into thinking your pronunciation is correct!
Thanks,
Jim Propp _______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
I can read IPA. The vowel sounds in "de Bruijn" are not American English vowels, and I can describe how to produce them, but I'm wondering if it would just sound weird for you to stick Dutch pronunciation in the middle of an English sentence. I've heard people say "de broon" in English. Dutch is hard to pronounce, and nobody would fault you for that Anglicization. You can approximate the Dutch pronunciation, if you must, by saying "brain", but rounding your lips as if to say "broon". On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 10:50 AM Christian Lawson-Perfect < christianperfect@gmail.com> wrote:
Refer to the work of Rockingham, et al. for the canonical Scottish pronunciation of 'house' (and 'moose' and 'loose'): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jeu72y0f4Kc
On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 15:35, James Propp <jamespropp@gmail.com> wrote:
According to the IPA rendering that appears at the beginning of the webpage for the mathematician DeBruijn ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaas_Govert_de_Bruijn) and the page on Dutch pronunciation that it links to, the final vowel in his surname should be pronounced like the “ou” in the Scottish English pronunciation of the word “house”. But I don’t speak Scottish English (though I occasionally speak a parodic version based on Monty Python skits and other less-than-definitive phonological resources). Is there a wensite that will let me type “Scottish English” into one field and “house” into another so I can hear what the vowel sounds like?
I’ll be saying “DeBruijn” in a video and I want to get it as close to correct as I can.
... Though I’ve been advised that when it comes to pronouncing Dutch vowels it’s impossible for Americans to get it right, so the important thing is to say it in an American accent lest you mislead people into thinking your pronunciation is correct!
Thanks,
Jim Propp _______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
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I’ll go with the ASMP (American Standard Mis-Pronunciation) and say “duh broon”. :-) Thanks, Allan! Jim On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 11:29 AM Allan Wechsler <acwacw@gmail.com> wrote:
I can read IPA. The vowel sounds in "de Bruijn" are not American English vowels, and I can describe how to produce them, but I'm wondering if it would just sound weird for you to stick Dutch pronunciation in the middle of an English sentence. I've heard people say "de broon" in English. Dutch is hard to pronounce, and nobody would fault you for that Anglicization.
You can approximate the Dutch pronunciation, if you must, by saying "brain", but rounding your lips as if to say "broon".
On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 10:50 AM Christian Lawson-Perfect < christianperfect@gmail.com> wrote:
Refer to the work of Rockingham, et al. for the canonical Scottish pronunciation of 'house' (and 'moose' and 'loose'): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jeu72y0f4Kc
On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 15:35, James Propp <jamespropp@gmail.com> wrote:
According to the IPA rendering that appears at the beginning of the webpage for the mathematician DeBruijn ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaas_Govert_de_Bruijn) and the page on Dutch pronunciation that it links to, the final vowel in his surname should be pronounced like the “ou” in the Scottish English pronunciation of the word “house”. But I don’t speak Scottish English (though I occasionally speak a parodic version based on Monty Python skits and other less-than-definitive phonological resources). Is there a wensite that will let me type “Scottish English” into one field and “house” into another so I can hear what the vowel sounds like?
I’ll be saying “DeBruijn” in a video and I want to get it as close to correct as I can.
... Though I’ve been advised that when it comes to pronouncing Dutch vowels it’s impossible for Americans to get it right, so the important thing is to say it in an American accent lest you mislead people into thinking your pronunciation is correct!
Thanks,
Jim Propp _______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
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There's a fantastic search engine that searches captions on Youtube and jumps to the relevant spot so you can hear people's pronunciations. You can switch between US, UK, Aus, and all pronunciations. The standard UK pronunciation seems to be "brown". https://youglish.com/search/de%20Bruijn/uk? On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 8:50 AM Christian Lawson-Perfect <christianperfect@gmail.com> wrote:
Refer to the work of Rockingham, et al. for the canonical Scottish pronunciation of 'house' (and 'moose' and 'loose'): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jeu72y0f4Kc
On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 15:35, James Propp <jamespropp@gmail.com> wrote:
According to the IPA rendering that appears at the beginning of the webpage for the mathematician DeBruijn ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaas_Govert_de_Bruijn) and the page on Dutch pronunciation that it links to, the final vowel in his surname should be pronounced like the “ou” in the Scottish English pronunciation of the word “house”. But I don’t speak Scottish English (though I occasionally speak a parodic version based on Monty Python skits and other less-than-definitive phonological resources). Is there a wensite that will let me type “Scottish English” into one field and “house” into another so I can hear what the vowel sounds like?
I’ll be saying “DeBruijn” in a video and I want to get it as close to correct as I can.
... Though I’ve been advised that when it comes to pronouncing Dutch vowels it’s impossible for Americans to get it right, so the important thing is to say it in an American accent lest you mislead people into thinking your pronunciation is correct!
Thanks,
Jim Propp _______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
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-- Mike Stay - metaweta@gmail.com http://math.ucr.edu/~mike https://reperiendi.wordpress.com
You can also search for videos that have closed captions by appending ", cc" (without quotes) to your search. Then just to the left of the suggested next videos under the video, there should be three dots. If you click that, there's an option to "open transcript", which you can then search for the particular phrase. Clicking on a phrase will jump to it in the video. It's a little more work than youglish, but you'll get a lot more videos that way. On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 10:15 AM Mike Stay <metaweta@gmail.com> wrote:
There's a fantastic search engine that searches captions on Youtube and jumps to the relevant spot so you can hear people's pronunciations. You can switch between US, UK, Aus, and all pronunciations. The standard UK pronunciation seems to be "brown".
https://youglish.com/search/de%20Bruijn/uk?
On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 8:50 AM Christian Lawson-Perfect <christianperfect@gmail.com> wrote:
Refer to the work of Rockingham, et al. for the canonical Scottish pronunciation of 'house' (and 'moose' and 'loose'): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jeu72y0f4Kc
On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 15:35, James Propp <jamespropp@gmail.com> wrote:
According to the IPA rendering that appears at the beginning of the webpage for the mathematician DeBruijn ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaas_Govert_de_Bruijn) and the page on Dutch pronunciation that it links to, the final vowel in his surname should be pronounced like the “ou” in the Scottish English pronunciation of the word “house”. But I don’t speak Scottish English (though I occasionally speak a parodic version based on Monty Python skits and other less-than-definitive phonological resources). Is there a wensite that will let me type “Scottish English” into one field and “house” into another so I can hear what the vowel sounds like?
I’ll be saying “DeBruijn” in a video and I want to get it as close to correct as I can.
... Though I’ve been advised that when it comes to pronouncing Dutch vowels it’s impossible for Americans to get it right, so the important thing is to say it in an American accent lest you mislead people into thinking your pronunciation is correct!
Thanks,
Jim Propp _______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
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-- Mike Stay - metaweta@gmail.com http://math.ucr.edu/~mike https://reperiendi.wordpress.com
-- Mike Stay - metaweta@gmail.com http://math.ucr.edu/~mike https://reperiendi.wordpress.com
I propose to say: Sequences like this are called De Brown or De Broon or De Broyn sequences in English-speaking countries (in Dutch-speaking countries people use a vowel that I can’t say that’s somewhere in the convex closure of ow, oo, and oy). Jim On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 12:28 PM Mike Stay <metaweta@gmail.com> wrote:
You can also search for videos that have closed captions by appending ", cc" (without quotes) to your search. Then just to the left of the suggested next videos under the video, there should be three dots. If you click that, there's an option to "open transcript", which you can then search for the particular phrase. Clicking on a phrase will jump to it in the video. It's a little more work than youglish, but you'll get a lot more videos that way.
On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 10:15 AM Mike Stay <metaweta@gmail.com> wrote:
There's a fantastic search engine that searches captions on Youtube and jumps to the relevant spot so you can hear people's pronunciations. You can switch between US, UK, Aus, and all pronunciations. The standard UK pronunciation seems to be "brown".
https://youglish.com/search/de%20Bruijn/uk?
On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 8:50 AM Christian Lawson-Perfect <christianperfect@gmail.com> wrote:
Refer to the work of Rockingham, et al. for the canonical Scottish pronunciation of 'house' (and 'moose' and 'loose'): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jeu72y0f4Kc
On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 15:35, James Propp <jamespropp@gmail.com>
wrote:
According to the IPA rendering that appears at the beginning of the
webpage
for the mathematician DeBruijn ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaas_Govert_de_Bruijn) and the page on Dutch pronunciation that it links to, the final vowel in his surname should be pronounced like the “ou” in the Scottish English pronunciation of the word “house”. But I don’t speak Scottish English (though I occasionally speak a parodic version based on Monty Python skits and other less-than-definitive phonological resources). Is there a wensite that will let me type “Scottish English” into one field and “house” into another so I can hear what the vowel sounds like?
I’ll be saying “DeBruijn” in a video and I want to get it as close to correct as I can.
... Though I’ve been advised that when it comes to pronouncing Dutch vowels it’s impossible for Americans to get it right, so the important thing is to say it in an American accent lest you mislead people into thinking your pronunciation is correct!
Thanks,
Jim Propp _______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
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-- Mike Stay - metaweta@gmail.com http://math.ucr.edu/~mike https://reperiendi.wordpress.com
-- Mike Stay - metaweta@gmail.com http://math.ucr.edu/~mike https://reperiendi.wordpress.com
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Snerk. That'll probably satisfy everybody. On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 12:53 PM James Propp <jamespropp@gmail.com> wrote:
I propose to say:
Sequences like this are called De Brown or De Broon or De Broyn sequences in English-speaking countries (in Dutch-speaking countries people use a vowel that I can’t say that’s somewhere in the convex closure of ow, oo, and oy).
Jim
On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 12:28 PM Mike Stay <metaweta@gmail.com> wrote:
You can also search for videos that have closed captions by appending ", cc" (without quotes) to your search. Then just to the left of the suggested next videos under the video, there should be three dots. If you click that, there's an option to "open transcript", which you can then search for the particular phrase. Clicking on a phrase will jump to it in the video. It's a little more work than youglish, but you'll get a lot more videos that way.
On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 10:15 AM Mike Stay <metaweta@gmail.com> wrote:
There's a fantastic search engine that searches captions on Youtube and jumps to the relevant spot so you can hear people's pronunciations. You can switch between US, UK, Aus, and all pronunciations. The standard UK pronunciation seems to be "brown".
https://youglish.com/search/de%20Bruijn/uk?
On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 8:50 AM Christian Lawson-Perfect <christianperfect@gmail.com> wrote:
Refer to the work of Rockingham, et al. for the canonical Scottish pronunciation of 'house' (and 'moose' and 'loose'): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jeu72y0f4Kc
On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 15:35, James Propp <jamespropp@gmail.com>
wrote:
According to the IPA rendering that appears at the beginning of the
webpage
for the mathematician DeBruijn ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaas_Govert_de_Bruijn) and the page on Dutch pronunciation that it links to, the final vowel in his surname should be pronounced like the “ou” in the Scottish English pronunciation of the word “house”. But I don’t speak Scottish English (though I occasionally speak a parodic version based on Monty Python skits and other less-than-definitive phonological resources). Is there a wensite that will let me type “Scottish English” into one field and “house” into another so I can hear what the vowel sounds like?
I’ll be saying “DeBruijn” in a video and I want to get it as close to correct as I can.
... Though I’ve been advised that when it comes to pronouncing Dutch vowels it’s impossible for Americans to get it right, so the important thing is to say it in an American accent lest you mislead people into thinking your pronunciation is correct!
Thanks,
Jim Propp _______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
_______________________________________________ math-fun mailing list math-fun@mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/math-fun
-- Mike Stay - metaweta@gmail.com http://math.ucr.edu/~mike https://reperiendi.wordpress.com
-- Mike Stay - metaweta@gmail.com http://math.ucr.edu/~mike https://reperiendi.wordpress.com
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Make an honest effort the first time (work up a bit of phlegm) and subsequently use “DB”. -Veit
On Jun 14, 2019, at 10:33 AM, James Propp <jamespropp@gmail.com> wrote:
According to the IPA rendering that appears at the beginning of the webpage for the mathematician DeBruijn ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaas_Govert_de_Bruijn) and the page on Dutch pronunciation that it links to, the final vowel in his surname should be pronounced like the “ou” in the Scottish English pronunciation of the word “house”. But I don’t speak Scottish English (though I occasionally speak a parodic version based on Monty Python skits and other less-than-definitive phonological resources). Is there a wensite that will let me type “Scottish English” into one field and “house” into another so I can hear what the vowel sounds like?
I’ll be saying “DeBruijn” in a video and I want to get it as close to correct as I can.
... Though I’ve been advised that when it comes to pronouncing Dutch vowels it’s impossible for Americans to get it right, so the important thing is to say it in an American accent lest you mislead people into thinking your pronunciation is correct!
Thanks,
Jim Propp
Having listened to a few "ui" words online now, I would agree with Mike that the best American mispronunciation would be "de Brown". The vowel sounds a lot more like "ow" than "oo". On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 12:17 PM Veit Elser <ve10@cornell.edu> wrote:
Make an honest effort the first time (work up a bit of phlegm) and subsequently use “DB”.
-Veit
On Jun 14, 2019, at 10:33 AM, James Propp <jamespropp@gmail.com> wrote:
According to the IPA rendering that appears at the beginning of the webpage for the mathematician DeBruijn ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaas_Govert_de_Bruijn) and the page on Dutch pronunciation that it links to, the final vowel in his surname should be pronounced like the “ou” in the Scottish English pronunciation of the word “house”. But I don’t speak Scottish English (though I occasionally speak a parodic version based on Monty Python skits and other less-than-definitive phonological resources). Is there a wensite that will let me type “Scottish English” into one field and “house” into another so I can hear what the vowel sounds like?
I’ll be saying “DeBruijn” in a video and I want to get it as close to correct as I can.
... Though I’ve been advised that when it comes to pronouncing Dutch vowels it’s impossible for Americans to get it right, so the important thing is to say it in an American accent lest you mislead people into thinking your pronunciation is correct!
Thanks,
Jim Propp
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participants (5)
-
Allan Wechsler -
Christian Lawson-Perfect -
James Propp -
Mike Stay -
Veit Elser