And as far as I know there have sometimes been post-graduate level "competitive math exams" such as one where teams from Mathematica Inc, Maple Inc, etc were to solve a set of torture problems posed by Nick Trefethen within some time limit, using their SMP to help, then the results used to judge how good each SMP was. (I think Gosper and Wolfram were some of the team members and Mathematica was the winning SMP?) Maybe you all can tell us more about those competitions? Were they really fair? I mean, it might be that this competition was really more about the humans than about the SMPs, in which case it did not fairly judge those SMPs? -- Warren D. Smith http://RangeVoting.org <-- add your endorsement (by clicking "endorse" as 1st step)