October 2010 - mathfun@mailman.xmission.com

[math-fun] muffin problem -- clusters and bounds
by Huddleston, Scott 01 Dec '17

01 Dec '17

I enclose examples of some of the bounds in my 28 Feb. post, and a derivation of the most involved example. S(12/7) = 3/7 = r/4 = (3-r)/3 Muffins: 1/7 * { [3,4]*12 } Persons: 1/7 * { [4*3]*4, [3*4]*3 } S(7/4) = 5/12 = (3-r)/3 = (2r-1)/6 Muffins: 1/12 * { [5,7]*6, [6*2] } Persons: 1/12 * { [5*3,6]*2, [7*3]*2 } S(40/23) = 19/46 = (2r-1)/6 = (12-5r)/8 Muffins: 1/46 * { [19,27]*24, [20,26]*12, [23*2]*4 } Persons: 1/46 * { [19*3,23]*8, [20*4]*3, [27*2,26]*12 } S(228/131) = 54/131 = (12-5r)/8 = (7r-6)/15 Muffins: 1/131 * { [54,77]*120, [55,76]*24, [57,74]*60, [65,66]*24 } Persons: 1/131 * { [54*3,66]*24, [54*2,55,65]*24, [57*4]*15, [77*2,74]*60, [76*3]*8 } S(449/258) = 319/774 = (7r-6)/15 = (73-32r)/42 Muffins: 1/774 * { [319,455]*210, [320,454]*30, [325,449]*42, [336,438]*30, [337,437]*90, [384,398]*42, [387*2]*5 } Persons: 1/774 * { [319*3,390]*42, [319*2,325,384]*42, [320*3,387]*10, [336,337*3]*30, [455*2,437]*90, [455,454,438]*30, [449*3]*14 } Here's a derivation of 449/258 example. 449 muffins -> 898 pieces, used in 124 4-parts with 496 pieces and 134 3-parts with 402 pieces. We split muffins between a 3-part and a 4-part when possible, but 4-parts contain 94 more pieces than 3-parts. We divide these 94 pieces (47 muffins) as evenly as possible among the 124 4-parts. 47 pairs of 4-parts contain both halves of a muffin, which I'll call an A^1 cluster and write A^1 = [a1*3,m]*2 where m denotes the two muffin halves and the other pieces are denoted a1, indicating a set of pieces of possibly different sizes that occure in A^1 clusters. 34 4-parts contain only muffin pieces whose mates appear in 3-parts. These I call A^0 clusters and write A^0 = [a0*4] The 449/258 example uses 30 A^0 clusters ([a0*4])*30 (120 a0 pieces, 30 4-parts) 47 A^1 clusters ([a1*3,m]*2)*47 (282 a1 pieces, 94 4-parts) Note that the A^1 cluster by itself sets an upper bound on S -- the cluster is 2 persons (size 2r), it cntains 1 complete muffin (size 1, pieces m*2), and it has 6 unmatched muffin pieces (a1*6), giving S(449/258) <= avg(a1) = (2r-1)/6. A^0 clusters also bound S by S(449/258) <= avg(a0) = r/4, but the A^1 cluster bound is tighter. Note that this (2r-1)/6 bound holds for examples 7/4 and 40/23. The muffin mates of a0 pieces (resp. a1 pieces) are z0 pieces (resp. z1 pieces). We distribute z0 and z1 pieces as evenly as possible across the 134 3-parts (402 pieces). With 282 z1 pieces, at least 14 3-parts must consist of only z1 pieces. These are Z^0 clusters, Z^0 = [z1*3] = [z10*3] where I refine piece labels so that z1 pieces appearing in Z^0 clusters are labelled z10. I create general Z^k clusters by finding minimal sets of persons that contain complete a0/z0 muffins. Maximally even distribution of the 120 z0 pieces places one per 3-part. Then a Z^1 cluster, closed under a0/z0 muffins, is Z^1 = [a0*4],[z0,z1*2]*4 = A^0,[z0,z11*2]*4 where z1 pieces appearing in Z^1 clusters are relabelled z11. Z^0 clusters bound S by S(449/258) <= avg(a10) = 1-avg(z10) = 1-r/3 = (3-r)/3 and Z^1 clusters provide an even tighter bound S(449/258) <= avg(a11) = 1-avg(z11) = 1-(5r-4)/8 = (12-5r)/8. The 449/258 example uses 14 Z^0 clusters = ([z10*3])*14 ( 42 z10 pieces, 14 3-parts) 30 Z^1 clusters = (A^0,[z0,z11*2]*4)*30 (240 z11 pieces, 120 3-parts) As before, we refine the labelling of a1 pieces into a10 and a11 pieces, according to z10 or z11 complements. The next level of clustering is constructed by taking closure under a10/z10 muffins. The 282 a1 pieces in the 47 A^1 clusters are divided into 240 a11 pieces and 42 a10 pieces. Thus at least 5 A^1 clusters must contain only a11 pieces, and with maximally even distribution we have 42 A^1 clusters with 1 a10 piece and 5 a11 pieces. Continuing to refine pieces according to their appearance in A^10 or A^11 clusters, we have A^10 = A^1 = {a110*6, ...} (6 a110 pieces and some other pieces) A^11 = Z^0, (A^1)*3 = (a111*15, ...) with 449/258 consisting of 5 A^10 clusters ( 5 A^1 clusters, 30 a110 pieces) 14 A^11 clusters (42 A^1 clusters, 252 a111 pieces) A^11 clusters provide bound S(449/258) <= avg(a111) = (7r-6)/15 The 449/258 example lies on the intersection of this bound and the next level cluster bound. The next cluster level takes a110/z110 muffin closure and induces clusters Z^10 = Z^1 Z^11 = A^10, (Z^1)*6 with 449/258 consisting of 0 Z^10 clusters 5 Z^11 clusters (i.e., only Z^11 clusters) and bound S(449/258) <= avg(a1111) = 1-avg(z1111) = (73-32r)/42. I conclude with some computer generated additional information on these bounds. If anyone sort of understands this post and would like to use my program as is (i.e., no manual and documentation is mostly my posts), drop me a note and I'll send the C++ source (300 lines). B<4>(r) = (1r-0)/4; S'(r) <= B<4>(r) on (3/2,2/1] tight bound on (3/2,8/5] and at r = (4+8k)/(2+5k) (3/2,8/5] contains mediant(3/2,8/5) = 11/7 S'( (3/2,8/5] ) = (3/8,2/5]; S'(11/7) = 11/28 B<>(r) = (1-0r)/2 B<4>(r) = B<>(r) at r = 2/1 = 2.0000000 S'(2/1) = 1/2 = 0.50000000 B<4,1>(r) = (3-1r)/3; S'(r) <= B<4,1>(r) on [12/7,2/1) tight bound on [9/5,2/1) and at r = (12+9k)/(7+5k) [9/5,2/1) contains mediant(9/5,2/1) = 11/6 S'( [9/5,2/1) ) = [2/5,1/3); S'(11/6) = 7/18 B<4>(r) = (1r-0)/4 B<4,1>(r) = B<4>(r) at r = 12/7 = 1.7142857 S'(12/7) = 3/7 = 0.42857143 B<4,1,1>(r) = (2r-1)/6; S'(r) <= B<4,1,1>(r) on (12/7,7/4] tight bound on (12/7,59/34] and at r = (21+59k)/(12+34k) (12/7,59/34] contains mediant(12/7,7/4) = 19/11 S'( (12/7,59/34] ) = (17/42,7/17]; S'(19/11) = 9/22 B<4,1>(r) = (3-1r)/3 B<4,1,1>(r) = B<4,1>(r) at r = 7/4 = 1.7500000 S'(7/4) = 5/12 = 0.41666667 B<4,1,1,1>(r) = (12-5r)/8; S'(r) <= B<4,1,1,1>(r) on [40/23,7/4) tight bound on [148/85,7/4) and at r = (80+148k)/(46+85k) [148/85,7/4) contains mediant(47/27,7/4) = 54/31 S'( [148/85,7/4) ) = [7/17,13/32); S'(54/31) = 51/124 B<4,1,1>(r) = (2r-1)/6 B<4,1,1,1>(r) = B<4,1,1>(r) at r = 40/23 = 1.7391304 S'(40/23) = 19/46 = 0.41304348 B<4,1,1,1,1>(r) = (7r-6)/15; S'(r) <= B<4,1,1,1,1>(r) on (40/23,228/131] tight bound on (40/23,1119/643] and at r = (228+1119k)/(131+643k) (40/23,1119/643] contains mediant(40/23,47/27) = 87/50 S'( (40/23,1119/643] ) = (142/345,265/643]; S'(87/50) = 103/250 B<4,1,1,1>(r) = (12-5r)/8 B<4,1,1,1,1>(r) = B<4,1,1,1>(r) at r = 228/131 = 1.7404580 S'(228/131) = 54/131 = 0.41221374 B<4,1,1,1,1,1>(r) = (73-32r)/42; S'(r) <= B<4,1,1,1,1,1>(r) on [449/258,228/131) tight bound on [9349/5372,228/131) and at r = (1347+9349k)/(774+5372k) [9349/5372,228/131) contains mediant(134/77,47/27) = 181/104 S'( [9349/5372,228/131) ) = [1107/2686,2267/5502); S'(181/104) = 75/182 B<4,1,1,1,1>(r) = (7r-6)/15 B<4,1,1,1,1,1>(r) = B<4,1,1,1,1>(r) at r = 449/258 = 1.7403101 S'(449/258) = 319/774 = 0.41214470 B<4,1,1,1,1,1,1>(r) = (61r-60)/112; S'(r) <= B<4,1,1,1,1,1,1>(r) on (449/258,764/439] tight bound on (449/258,149516/85913] and at r = (10696+149516k)/(6146+85913k) (449/258,149516/85913] contains mediant(449/258,764/439) = 1213/697 S'( (449/258,149516/85913] ) = (11909/28896,35408/85913]; S'(1213/697) = 32173/78064 B<4,1,1,1,1,1>(r) = (73-32r)/42 B<4,1,1,1,1,1,1>(r) = B<4,1,1,1,1,1>(r) at r = 764/439 = 1.7403189 S'(764/439) = 2533/6146 = 0.41213798 B<4,1,1,1,1,1,1,1>(r) = (1101-487r)/615; S'(r) <= B<4,1,1,1,1,1,1,1>(r) on [160212/92059,764/439) tight bound on [1313469/754729,764/439) and at r = (160212+6567345k)/(92059+3773645k) [1313469/754729,764/439) contains mediant(19549/11233,764/439) = 20313/11672 S'( [1313469/754729,764/439) ) = [1555262/3773645,111271/269985); S'(20313/11672) = 986147/2392760 B<4,1,1,1,1,1,1>(r) = (61r-60)/112 B<4,1,1,1,1,1,1,1>(r) = B<4,1,1,1,1,1,1>(r) at r = 160212/92059 = 1.7403187 S'(160212/92059) = 37941/92059 = 0.41213787

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Re: [math-fun] Another(?) stick length illusion
by Dan Asimov 25 Aug '15

25 Aug '15

Huh? At least to the nearest pixel, both lines are the same length. They are corresponding diagonals of congruent regular pentagons. I find this to be an impressive illusion. --Dan << << To me the stick that is in fact longer looks like it is in fact longer. If they're supposed to be the same length I think your image needs a bit of editing. >> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Bill Gosper <billgosper(a)gmail.com> wrote: > While hacking the pentagon fill, tutor Julian found > www.tweedledum.com/rwg/6pents.png, which seems to work backwards: > The stick larger than its context appears smaller than the > stick smaller than its context. >> _____________________________________________________________________ "It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that certain je ne sais quoi." --Peter Schickele

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Re: [math-fun] parametrizing the Koch snowflake curve
by Bill Gosper 24 Apr '15

24 Apr '15

Fourier epicycles thru nth: (d16) sum(((product((1 - (( - 1)^j * tan(((%pi * (2 * k + (1/3)))/(2^j)))/(sqrt(3)))),j,1,inf)) * (%e)^(%i * (6 * k + 1) * t)/((2 * k + (1/3))^2)),k, - n,n) See http://www.tweedledum.com/rwg/cog.htm Also http://gosper.org/fst.dvi Pix: http://gosper.org/fst1.png ,http://gosper.org/fst2.png , http://gosper.org/fst3.png ,http://gosper.org/fst4.png . (For parametric, take Re and Im.) Rich's base 4 recursion loops for rational arg. Find the fixed point of the pending stack ops to simulate infinite recursion, and get an exact val on the curve. Equate to this Fourier series for a *non-obvious* identity. --rwg > If you view the starting triangle as running from 0 to 3, > and write the fraction base 4, you can use the > fraction digits to select which part of the (sub)edge > you are on. The orientation of the edge can be calculated > from the 1s and 2s of the high order portion of the fraction, > and that should give a somewhat kludgy sum for the (x,y) > coordinates of the image point. > RWG likely has some nice FFT clock sum expression. > > Rich > > > -----Original Message----- > From: math-fun-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto: math-fun-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com] On > Behalf Of N. J. A. Sloane > Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:43 PM > To: math-fun(a)mailman.xmission.com > Cc: njas(a)research.att.com > Subject: Re: [math-fun] parametrizing the Koch snowflake curve > > Jim Propp asked: > >> Does anyone (Bill Gosper, maybe?) know an explicit parametrization > of the Koch snowflake curve? > > The Cantor set consists of the points 0 <= x <= 1 which have a base 3 "decimal" expansion that > does not contain a 1. Is there a similar characterization of the Koch snowflake? > > Neil Sloane > >

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[math-fun] sqrt(pi)
by Bill Gosper 24 Mar '13

24 Mar '13

Pairwise combining the terms of A&S 6.5.31 (upper Gamma CF), then adding last week's lower gamma CF: In[185]:= Equal[Gamma[ z], ((y^z*((1/(cfk[n*(z - n), -z + y + 2*n + 1, List[n, Infinity]] - z + y + 1)) + (1/(z + cfk[n*y, z - y + n, List[n, Infinity]] - y))))/(E^y))] z 1 Gamma[z] == (y (------------------------------------------- + -y + z + cfk[n y, n - y + z, {n, Infinity}] 1 y -----------------------------------------------------------)) / E 1 + y - z + cfk[n (-n + z), 1 + 2 n + y - z, {n, Infinity}] where cfk:=ContinuedFractionK and y>0 can be chosen to optimize convergence. Specializing, In[186]:= % /. z -> 1/2 /. y -> 1 Out[186]= 1 Sqrt[Pi] == (-------------------------------------- + 1 1 -(-) + cfk[n, -(-) + n, {n, Infinity}] 2 2 1 ------------------------------------------) / E 3 1 3 - + cfk[(- - n) n, - + 2 n, {n, Infinity}] 2 2 2 In[192]:= N[List @@ %186 /. cfk[num_, den_, _] :> ContinuedFractionK[num, den, {n, 9}]] Out[192]= {1.77245, 1.77244} This is the first non-asymptotic sum or CF I've seen for sqrt(pi). But the sum behind the lowergamma cf has been there all along, so I must not have been paying attention. --rwg

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Re: [math-fun] Disk polyominoes
by Allan Wechsler 13 Apr '12

13 Apr '12

A funster who might or might not wish to remain anonymous has corrected me in private. A3 does not equal 2; it equals 1. The corrected sequence is: 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3 ... As before, I'm not entirely confident of the last couple of values. Thank you for the correction.

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[math-fun] Machine Go
by rcs＠xmission.com 12 Oct '11

12 Oct '11

Science Daily has a report of a recent success for a Go program. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090514083931.htm The program Huygens defeated two professional Go players. The program had handicaps of 6 or 7 stones. Question for the Go players among us: Does a handicap of 6 stones mean that the starting board has 6 stones added for the weaker player, or that 6 is added to the final score? Rich

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[math-fun] Slanted coverage
by Bill Gosper 08 Jul '11

08 Jul '11

In those ubiquitous little tables of area and volume formulae in handbooks and textbooks, there's often a picture of a skewed cone next to the right cone to emphasize that they have the same volume formula. Did you ever wonder why there's never the skewed cone area formula? For the special case with the apex directly above a point on the circumference, I get pi h r 3F2[-1/2,1/4,3/4; 1/2, 1; -4 r^2/h^2], which doesn't even converge for h < 2 r. The area element for the general x,y,z parametric surface is just Out[85]= (1,0) (0,1) Norm[Cross[({x, y, z}) , ({x, y, z}) ]] (I don't recall this from 18.03.) E.g., for the torus with radii r and R, In[116]:= % /. {x :> (Cos[#2]*(R + r*Sin[#1]) &), y :> (Sin[#2]*(R + r*Sin[#1]) &), z :> (r*Cos[#1] &)} Out[116]= Norm[Cross[({Cos[#2] (R + r Sin[#1]) & , Sin[#2] (R + r Sin[#1]) & , (1,0) r Cos[#1] & }) , ({Cos[#2] (R + r Sin[#1]) & , (0,1) Sin[#2] (R + r Sin[#1]) & , r Cos[#1] & }) ]] In[117]:= % /. f_[L_List] :> f /@ L /. Abs[w_] -> w Out[117]= Sqrt[Power[-(-r Sin[#1] & ) (Cos[#2] (R + r Sin[#1]) & ) + (0 & ) (r Cos[#1] Sin[#2] & ), 2] + Power[-(0 & ) (r Cos[#1] Cos[#2] & ) + (-r Sin[#1] & ) (-(R + r Sin[#1]) Sin[#2] & ), 2] + Power[(r Cos[#1] Cos[#2] & ) (Cos[#2] (R + r Sin[#1]) & ) - (r Cos[#1] Sin[#2] & ) (-(R + r Sin[#1]) Sin[#2] & ), 2]] In[119]:= % /. (f_ &) :> (f &)[t, u] Out[119]= 2 2 2 2 Sqrt[r Cos[u] Sin[t] (R + r Sin[t]) + 2 2 2 2 r Sin[t] (R + r Sin[t]) Sin[u] + 2 2 2 (r Cos[t] Cos[u] (R + r Sin[t]) + r Cos[t] (R + r Sin[t]) Sin[u] ) ] In[120]:= FullSimplify[%] Out[120]= 2 2 Sqrt[r (R + r Sin[t]) ] In[125]:= Assuming[R > r > 0, Integrate[%120, {t, 0, 2*Pi}, {u, 0, 2*Pi}]] Out[125]= 2 4 Pi r R Did Archimedes know this? --rwg

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Re: [math-fun] pi cf record
by Bill Gosper 05 Nov '10

05 Nov '10

Bill Gosper: > Has anyone listed the largest terms in Hans's data? Hans Havermann: >I have. :) >http://chesswanks.com/seq/cfpi/ For his 13th birthday, funster Neil Bickford has just computed and verified 485M partial quotients (http://www.neilbickford.com/picf.htm) The longest previous CF we can find remains Hans Havermann's 180M, wherein Neil found two glitches--a "q" instead of a "1" at position 4,311,037 (a picked 2^6 bit) and a semicolon following term 100,000,000. The probably biggest news is the survival of 878783625 as the largest known partial quotient, seeming to signal the end of a pattern of "premature" high water marks, assuming the lg 1+t distribution for the tails of almost all reals. If pi is to maintain its reputation, the next high should be a doozy. (I dimly recall deriving that lg 1+t implies that, in an n term burst, the largest should be about e*n. Can anyone help here?) Neil also reports "Taking 9,701 seconds (161 minutes), the longest string of second difference zeroes is of length 18, starting at 173,533,907 and ending at 173,533,924." I.e., he has significantly increased the numerators and denominators necessary for any rational linear relationship of pi to e. Expect details shortly at http://nbickford.wordpress.com/ . Is there reason to expect the longest burst of vanishing second differences should have a difference interval of 1? Or did Neil neglect to mention that it was >1? --rwg

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[math-fun] Museum of Mathematics
by Bill Gosper 31 Oct '10

31 Oct '10

George Hart wrote: Funsters, As Chief of Content at the Museum of Mathematics, http://momath.org/, which will open in New York City in 2012, I am in the midst of designing dozens of hands-on exhibits which convey the richness of math to the public (of all ages). The best exhibits are usually interactive, open ended, and visually engaging. We need to touch on many branches of mathematics beyond the school curriculum. I have been gathering ideas from many sources, but have not sent out a call to this math-fun list. So I'd be interested to hear suggestions for novel exhibits that you feel would help make MoMath the coolest hands-on museum anywhere while conveying mathematical ideas and ways of thinking. Georgehttp://momath.org/http://georgehart.com/ P.S. Gyroid sculpture barn raising this weekend in D.C.: http://www.georgehart.com/DC/ --------- Birollers! (Steinmetz solids) Maybe wooden, softball sized. Trough wants to be quite rigid. [math-fun] tetraroller Thursday, October 9, 2008 5:28 AM From: "rwg(a)sdf.lonestar.org" <rwg(a)sdf.lonestar.org> To: "math-fun" <math-fun(a)mailman.xmission.com> Recall (from a couple of years) that a "biroller" is the intersection of two perpendicular circular cylinders and takes an intriguing choatic path if rolled diagonally down a shallow, inclined (bathtub-like) trough. A "triroller" is the intersection of three perpendicular cylinders, with perhaps slightly less interesting rolling behavior. In either case, the roller can only change direction if it momentarily rests on the intersection of two ridges. Now consider the intersection of the four cones circumscribing a regular tetrahedron. (http://gosper.org/tetraroller1.gif, http://gosper.org/tetraroller2.gif) Instead of tipping on one of the triple points of ridges, it chooses left or right as it rolls up an initially nonexistent ridge. I'm not sure what would be the most entertaining surface, but these might make an even more hellish alternative to Gilbert & Sullivan's "elliptical billiard balls". The intersection ridges are in fact elliptical, and the projection along an altitude of the tetrahedron reveals quite probably a Reuleaux triangle (Wankel). The vector from the center to one of the triple points is exactly -3/5 times the vector to the opposite vertex. --rwg [Older mail] The volume formula for the perpendicular intersection of two cylinders of radius r can be found by replacing pi by 4 in the volume of the inscribed sphere. It is said that Archimedes found this thirteen centuries before Newton's calculus. Did he also know that the same 4/pi trick gives the surface area? If not, perhaps he noticed the universal prismatoid volume formula A + 4 A + A t m b V = h --------------, 6 (= one panel of Simpson's rule, with A:=area, t:=top, m:=middle, b:=bottom, h=height), which works on all the elementary solids, and deduced that it also works for the "biroller". (Is there a classical name for this solid?) I've said this before, but a fairly dense, fairly hard biroller (say, lathed from 2" aluminum bar stock) makes an intriguing chaotic toy, when rolled diagonally down a shallow, inclined trough (like a bathtub, but longer and shallower). The roller oscillates with gradually decaying amplitude until a downswing pauses on one of the two poles, whereupon it rocks with renewed amplitude, downslope on a perpendicular arc, taking a completely unpredictable time to reach the bottom. This was shown to me by an adolescent David Silver ca. 1970. --rwg PS, a Macsyma command to draw a biroller is block([plotnum1:2,f],[sin(t),sin(t),cos(t)],f:(1-u)*%%+u*[-1,1,1]*%%, makelist(f:part(f*[-1,1,1],[2,1,3]),k,1,4),plotsurf(%%,t,0,%pi,u,0,1)) [Answering private query:] Maybe it's time we make a triroller, I think it would be interesting, but harder and less interesting than the biroller. It would come down way faster, having twice the turning opportunities, which would only be desirable if the biroller had too much friction and missed turns by decaying too fast. OK, so when did you learn enough calculus to figure out the volume? --Bill It may be Mitchell Riley who needs thanking for telling me the Steinmetz name for these.

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Re: [math-fun] pi cf record
by Bill Gosper 30 Oct '10

30 Oct '10

rcs>Was this checked for all N & Q where N+2Q < 458M? >The nominal work is ~10^17. I can see some algorithm possibilities to improve this, but I'm curious about what's actually been done. Rich ----- Yes! It's actually almost linear in q. Let m:=458M. For q=1,2,... you scan backward for a q s.t. a[m]-2*a[m-q]+a[m-2q] = 0. Then you scan forward k=1,2,... for 2*a[m-q+k]-a[m-2q+k]<=0, which is usually pretty prompt. --Bill ---------- Quoting Bill Gosper <billgosper(a)gmail.com <http://gosper.org/webmail/src/compose.php?send_to=billgosper%40gmail.com>>: > Denote by a[0], a[1], ... the continued fraction terms of pi> (= 3,7,15,1,... = A001203). If there are rationals A,B,C,D such that> pi = (Ae+B)/(Ce+D), then there is a quasiperiod q and a preamble p> such that the second differences>> a[n+2q]-2a[n+q]+a[n] = 0>> for all n>p. For e itself, q=3 and p=1. (Or any positive multiple of 3> and any positive integer). E.g., define a second-differencer:> In[13]:= dif2[L_List, q_Integer:1] :=> Drop[L, 2*q] - 2*Drop[Drop[L, -q], q] + Drop[L, -2*q]>> In[16]:= dif2[{a, b, c, d, e}, 2]>> Out[16]= {a - 2 c + e}> Then> In[163]:= dif2[ContinuedFraction[E, 22], 3]>> Out[163]= {1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0}> (p=1,q=3).> In[166]:= dif2[ContinuedFraction[E^(2/3), 22], 5]>>> Out[166]= {0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0}>> (p=0,q=5).>> In[171]:= dif2[ContinuedFraction[(E - 1)/(1 - E/6), 333], 130]>>>> Out[171]= {2, 1, 11, -1, 0, 62, 1, 3, 0, -1, 0, 1, -5, 5, 5, 1, -2, \>> -153, -2, 0, 1, -58, 5, 2, 1, 152, 2, 57, -6, 3, -2, -21, 6, -10, 3, \>> 22, -18, 3, 18, 4, 0, 3, 1, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, \>> 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0}>> (p=44, q=130)>>>> By second-differencing Neil's 458585379 terms one can contrive at most>> seven(!)>> terminal 0s, with, e.g., p=458585379-2q, q=16400301. But not even these>> seven>> can signal an incipient quasiperiod, because annihilating all future second>> differences requires that some yet-to-be-computed terms be nonpositive! A>> program has confirmed that *all* terminal bursts, even of length one, are>> similarly doomed, thereby precluding any e-like (Hurwitz) behavior with>> p+2q < 458585379. Thus at least one of A,B,C,D has a big numerator or>> denominator. (How big?)>> --rwg>> Maybe not huge. For 3.141595... = 4-6e/19, p=447 and q=676.>>

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