Hiya, Now that it's obviously too late to bring in some new aspects to the CD/vinyl debate, I thought I might. Didn't I read in Record Collector, ages ago, that the master tape was never intended as the finished product in the '60s and '70s? Apparently, there is something called the cutting phaze (phase?). This is/was the last stage of production, and the changes could be pretty vital to the final mix. IIRC, the sound could for instance be compressed (so the differences between the loud and silent parts were diminished), or the other way around, like Peo English is not my first language so I don't know what they call that, and even some EQ went into that last stage. Come to think of it, I think Orbital have credited someone "cutting" their records at least once, although I'd suppose they would have put the final cut onto the CDs as well. Anyway, I can't believe the CD/vinyl debate found its way to the Kraftwerk mailing list as I can't think of any CD reissues I own where they did a lousier job. You don't even get the complete recording (first chord of Neonlights?) at times. I also think the fade-in of Europe Endless sounds far weaker. Not to mention all the mic hiss on Man-Machine Autobahn and some others. And I don't have a very good stereo, either, I always thought that records were more important. So, if anyone remembers the RC article I mention, I wont have to bother with searching for it. thx in advance. Oystein _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Oystein Moe pondered:
Didn't I read in Record Collector, ages ago, that the master tape was never intended as the finished product in the '60s and '70s? Apparently, there is something called the cutting phaze (phase?). This is/was the last stage of production, and the changes could be pretty vital to the final mix. IIRC, the sound could for instance be compressed (so the differences between the loud and silent parts were diminished), or the other way around, like Peo English is not my first language so I don't know what they call that, and even some EQ went into that last stage.
I think I missed that article.. If you can find it, I'd be interested in a copy :) Anyway, this might be where acetates come in. There are tons of acetates from the 60s and 70s, and my impression is that these were used to "save the day's work" on many an occasion. I can't find any other explanation as to why there are so many "alternate takes" and similar with some 60s and 70s acts. Why anyone would engrave an acetate when they could save it onto multi-track tape, however, is out of my league.. Seems really stupid ;) Nah, what I think you're talking about is that things weren't as controlled then as it is now. There most likely were master tapes, but contrary to now, each country the record would be released in had their own master tape, and they could mix and process the contents at will. Think of all the Autobahn edits, for instance.. Most likely they were edited from the master tape. The concept of "cutting" a record is (I'm speculating now) probably when the record engineers transfer the final mix from the tapes to disc. If I'm not completely mistaken, all vinyl discs are pressed from a metal master disk, are they not? That bloody Norwegian rambled on:
Anyway, I can't believe the CD/vinyl debate found its way to the Kraftwerk mailing list as I can't think of any CD reissues I own where they did a lousier job. You don't even get the complete recording (first chord of Neonlights?) at times. I also think the fade-in of Europe Endless sounds far weaker. Not to mention all the mic hiss on Man-Machine Autobahn and some others. And I don't have a very good stereo, either, I always thought that records were more important.
Amen to that!! The Kraftwerk CDs are notoriously bad... The now more respected guy from the last Soviet state concluded:
So, if anyone remembers the RC article I mention, I wont have to bother with searching for it. thx in advance.
As I said, I'd love to hear what they wrote! Cheers, Peo
Oystein Moe schrieb am 28.07.2002 12:07 Uhr MESZ:
Didn't I read in Record Collector, ages ago, that the master tape was never intended as the finished product in the '60s and '70s? Apparently, there is something called the cutting phaze (phase?). This is/was the last stage of production, and the changes could be pretty vital to the final mix. IIRC, the sound could for instance be compressed (so the differences between the loud and silent parts were diminished), or the other way around, like Peo English is not my first language so I don't know what they call that, and even some EQ went into that last stage.
the master tape should be the final stage. the producer (or engineer) has done a bad job if the master has to be corrected again for the disc cutting.
participants (3)
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Oystein Moe -
Per-Olof Karlsson -
Reetze@t-online.de