kRAFTWERK: then and now (and inbetween)
Filtre4Pole said: So, you are one of those (rare?) early fans... who are still fans ;-) ian t said:
Have loved them since I bought the Vertigo double album (1972) in 1976 (I haden't heard Autobahn or Radio activity at this stage).
Filtre4Pole said: Interesting... I'm wondering: have you been really disappointed when you discovered the new and definitive electro-pop side of Kraftwerk ? or on the contrary, have you been amazed, feeling something like "wow! unbielivable, these guys are genius, better than I could imagine!..." ??? ;-) Certainly not disappointed, "wow! Unbelievable" would be more like the case. During my early teenage years (early seventies) there was bland pop music and there was rock music. When punk came along everything became less formal, more liberated and much more diverse. But prior to that it was mainly guitar-orientated ego-centric Americanised (usually pretentious) rock music, or else bubble gum pop. German groups like Faust, Can and Kraftwerk seemed much more interesting. Strangely, Tangerine Dream never quite grabbed my attention, so I can only conclude that the synthesiser sound was not the main attraction (Tangerine Dream were totally synthesised before KW). I remember hearing the single Autobahn and thinking "wow" but this was only one individual track, the rest of the Autobahn album was still quite avant-garde. It was not until TEE did I see the real genius. I think genius is easy to see in retrospect, but when something is truly new the difference between novelty and genius is not so obvious. The image of KW on the TEE cover was radical for its time, and The Man Machine even more so, because up till then all serious rock musicians had long hair etc. The punks emerged at the same time as the TEE album so everything was being challenged anyway. I would say that the approach of Tangerine Dream was more like the early 70's rock bands, more operatic and grand, whereas KW were more punk like (even though they were certainly not punks) with having a radical look and a more minimalist less grandiose approach to music. The fantasy/OTT romantic, sort of "Lord of the Rings" and "I will love you forever baby, subjects that the 70s rock bands dealt with contrasted heavily with the political and aggressive formats of the new punk bands. KW was neither of these things, but I think the "new wave" in music made them more accessible. It is really only after a period of time has gone by that one can really see that what you enjoyed at the time was actually innovative genius. To the KW fans that came later (such as yourself Mr Filtre4Pole) the KW legacy will already be acknowledged. I wonder if it is the case that the older members of the list find it easier to accept and enjoy the new album for what it is (genuine interest, I'm not trying to offend anyone in anyway!!). I don't recall any KW album getting rave reviews and declared "groundbreaking" at the time of its release. I think music that truly fits this description always receives a mixed reception at the time. In fact I would be worried if TDF Soundtracks was getting consistently brilliant reviews; it would suggest that it is predictable. ian t _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
le 20/08/2003 18:05, ian tyson à i_tyson@hotmail.com a écrit :
I remember hearing the single Autobahn and thinking "wow" but this was only one individual track, the rest of the Autobahn album was still quite avant-garde.
Of course, but Kraftwerk has always been avant-garde anyway (more and more since Autobahn...)
The image of KW on the TEE cover was radical for its time, and The Man Machine even more so, because up till then all serious rock musicians had long hair etc.
Yep! indeed, 'classic dress' and short hair in the 70's looked old fashion and out of date (...but up to date) . *btw* it took me a while to understand (and then enjoy!) all the subtleties of those albums' sleeves... ;-)
The punks emerged at the same time as the TEE album so everything was being challenged anyway. [...] whereas KW were more punk like (even though they were certainly not punks) with having a radical look and a more minimalist less grandiose approach to music.
Time coincidence... What then ? ?? I've read this odd journalist's "theory" somewhere (at least in Tim Barr's and Pascal Bussy's books). I will ever disagree: Kraftwerk *elite* attitude had not to be compared with the punk attitude. Not the same world, and the punk emergence changed nothing in the perception around Kraftwerk music (nor in R&F's mind)... *btw* punks have never been really musicians nor artists *imho*, just challengers. They looked ridiculous and always made me laugh, as they laughed out of rock heroes and a little bit of themselves, I guess :-))
The fantasy/OTT romantic, sort of "Lord of the Rings" and "I will love you forever baby, subjects that the 70s rock bands dealt with contrasted heavily with the political and aggressive formats of the new punk bands. KW was neither of these things, but I think the "new wave" in music made them more accessible.
mmhhh... yes, perhaps, if you mean more accessible to the common public of the "rock" scene (probably never attracted by any kind of electronic music otherwise).
It is really only after a period of time has gone by that one can really see that what you enjoyed at the time was actually innovative genius. To the KW fans that came later (such as yourself Mr Filtre4Pole) the KW legacy will already be acknowledged...
...Well, for myself, not exactly. :-) The very first time I heard Kraftwerk in my childhood, it was on the radio, beep.. beep.. beeep... "Radioactivity" and I thought: "wow, the sound!! unbelievable...." I didn't care if it was "pop music" or not, only (mainly) the *sounds* struck me: I suddenly realized that synthetic /electronic music concept did exist. I have got the Kraftwerk-must-be-genius convinction (intuition) since then (though I really didn't know anything else about Kraftwerk at this time, I was even unable to spell korrrekkttly their name!!). *btw* Definitely "Radioactivity" was the starting point of my attraction to electronic music (and eventually it helped me a lot to discover other electro-artists like JMJarre, Space Art, Vangelis, Giorgio Moroder, Tangerine Dream etc etc etc including many of the numerous "clones"...) Then (still owing to the radio) all the tracks I discovered after - "Trans Europe Express" "Antenna" "Les Mannequins" "The Robots" - confirmed my initial impression: every time I was *amazed* (especially the Robots!!). My first album was "Autobahn" (same positive feeling, again) then I got the Vertigo compilation of the Philips years "Exceller 8" containing short versions of *wellknown* Autobahn and Kometenmelodie 2 and *big surprise!* (what I call) *pre-hystoric* K'tracks. Of course some of them were enjoyable, like the great 4min edited version of "Vom Himmel hoch" (missing happily that long 'not-from-high-in-the-sky' krautrock part in the middle) but I have to admit I'm not the biggest fan of the early years: too much improvisation and 'lack of structure', not electronic enough, too much acoustic and common rock sounds like I hate (drums guitars... etc). A huge gap exists between the 3 first albums *before* and ALL the 'perfekt' electro songs that came *after*. What happened ? Nobody has ever been able to explain that spectacular mutation. It will be always a *fascinating* mystery for me ! I can't understand (after all perhaps I don't need to...) That's why I think the opinion of early fans here who jumped over the gap to follow Kraftwerk until now, is of real interest. (Thanks) ;-) Maybe, perhaps, _ /o o\ Filtre4Pole \ ~ / I I - -
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