There where some reports to the list about Jarre attending one of the Paris shows, does anybody know if JMJ ever in interviews has mentioned KW as a source of inspiration - or mentioned them at all? I mean - they've probably been inspired by each other in one way or another, but KW would never mention anything like this in an interview, thats why I wonder if JMJ ever has... Regards / Johan
le 10/10/2002 15:49, johan.andersson@allers.aller.se a écrit :
There where some reports to the list about Jarre attending one of the Paris shows, does anybody know if JMJ ever in interviews has mentioned KW as a source of inspiration - or mentioned them at all?
I mean - they've probably been inspired by each other in one way or another, but KW would never mention anything like this in an interview, thats why I wonder if JMJ ever has...
It's seems... that I heard - once at least ( but don't remember when where... I've heard/read/seen lots of Jarre interviews!) JMJ speeking briefly in high terms of Kraftwerk... However, I think JM Jarre is too "proud" to say: "I'm a K'fan, you know..." ;-) Even if he admitted to be (only) influenced by composers like Nino Rota or Pierre Schaeffer ( reffering to early interviews ), I've always been convinced Kraftwerk had a real influence on Jarre's music, especially in late 70's! For example: listen again to "Equinoxe" ( if you don't know it, you must discover that true electronic-music masterpiece recorded in 1978 ) well... it's obvious: "Equinoxe" ( particularly Part.4/5/6/7 ) contains typical advanced electro-synth-sounds(+vocoder!) textures, nice melodies, deep analog-sequences... rythm machines... and sounds to me like a long "evolving" "KlingKlang" track. Conclusion: JM Jarre, a Kraftwerk fan?? *lol*imho: It's a possibility... ;-) ...maybe, perhaps, _ /o o\ Filtre4Pole \ ~ / I I - -
Filtre4Pole schrieb am 11.10.2002 1:05 Uhr:
Even if he (JMJ) admitted to be (only) influenced by composers like Nino Rota or Pierre Schaeffer ( reffering to early interviews ),
Rota and Schaeffer would have turned in their graves if they ever happened to hear that. -jan __________________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de Möchten Sie mit einem Gruß antworten? http://grusskarten.yahoo.de
le 11/10/02 13:21, Jan R. à dasfestistzuendeaus@yahoo.de a écrit :
Filtre4Pole schrieb am 11.10.2002 1:05 Uhr:
Even if he (JMJ) admitted to be (only) influenced by composers like Nino Rota or Pierre Schaeffer ( reffering to early interviews ), Rota and Schaeffer would have turned in their graves if they ever happened to hear that.
Rota maybe, but JMJ was under Pierre Schaeffer's orders at the GRM, the group for musical research depending at the time of the French (public) tv, then of the INA (national institute for audiovisual). And it's strange you can't find the early JMJ works he didi at the time ;) Denis D)
I've got a LASER, Earthman! schrieb am 11.10.2002 13:46 Uhr:
Rota maybe, but JMJ was under Pierre Schaeffer's orders at the GRM, the group for musical research depending at the time of the French (public) tv, then of the INA (national institute for audiovisual).
Which are very elitist institutes (under the shadow of IRCAM, of cause), I know them ... Yes, you're right, Pierre Schaeffer knew JMJ, and as he once said, he saw "a connection between new sounds and the public" in JMJ. If you read this statement carefully, you will notice that there's a lot of ambivalence in it. ;-) I'm *relatively* familiar to the oeuvre of Pierre Schaeffer, and I'm far away from overrating him, but it seems to me that there are at best superficial relations between his works and the recordings of JMJ. Schaeffer always tried to find out the *meaning* of a sound (as Holger Czukay said: You have to listen very deeply into the sound to find out what he's saying). JMJ in my humble opinion did never and does not. He's not interested in deeply listening. He's a very talented supplier of flashes in the pan. - But that's a matter of taste ...
And it's strange you can't find the early JMJ works he didi at the time ;)
Maybe it's better this way ... -jan __________________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de Möchten Sie mit einem Gruà antworten? http://grusskarten.yahoo.de
le 11/10/02 18:51, Jan R. à dasfestistzuendeaus@yahoo.de a écrit :
Which are very elitist institutes (under the shadow of IRCAM, of cause), I know them ...
me too :) (I'm in Paris btw :)))) I participate to Resonance next week.
Yes, you're right, Pierre Schaeffer knew JMJ, and as he once said, he saw "a connection between new sounds and the public" in JMJ. If you read this statement carefully, you will notice that there's a lot of ambivalence in it. ;-)
sure ;)
I'm *relatively* familiar to the oeuvre of Pierre Schaeffer, and I'm far away from overrating him, but it seems to me that there are at best superficial relations between his works and the recordings of JMJ. Schaeffer always tried to find out the *meaning* of a sound (as Holger Czukay said: You have to listen very deeply into the sound to find out what he's saying). JMJ in my humble opinion did never and does not. He's not interested in deeply listening. He's a very talented supplier of flashes in the pan. - But that's a matter of taste ...
I'm much more fond of Pierre Henry anyway, especially live, JMJ lost it as a pop provider on zoolook. And it's no earthshacking music he was doing anyway. (now the JMJfans will kill us ;)
And it's strange you can't find the early JMJ works he didi at the time ;) Maybe it's better this way ...
or maybe it's really not commercial enough or both :)))) Hear Pierre Henry or die! ;) Denis D) musique concrète
I've got a LASER, Earthman! schrieb am 11.10.2002 19:19 Uhr:
(now the JMJfans will kill us ;)
But they've got only a LASER HARP! -jan __________________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de Möchten Sie mit einem Gruß antworten? http://grusskarten.yahoo.de
le 11/10/2002 18:51, Jan R. a écrit :
Yes, you're right, Pierre Schaeffer knew JMJ, and as he once said, he saw "a connection between new sounds and the public" in JMJ. If you read this statement carefully, you will notice that there's a lot of ambivalence in it. ;-)
ambivalence in your own interpretation, indeed ;-)
I'm *relatively* familiar to the oeuvre of Pierre Schaeffer, and I'm far away from overrating him, but it seems to me that there are at best superficial relations between his works and the recordings of JMJ.
ok, but we are talking here about 'influences' ( not 'copying'! ;-)
Schaeffer always tried to find out the *meaning* of a sound (as Holger Czukay said: You have to listen very deeply into the sound to find out what he's saying). JMJ in my humble opinion did never and does not. He's not interested in deeply listening.
*rotflol* (you're not kidding here???) ):-)) (that means OBVIOUSLY you don't KNOW "Oxygene" & "Equinoxe" (??) ;-)) I'm afraid your opinion is ABSOLUTELY wrong!! Sorry! Just basing the appreciation on these 2 (WELL known to me) albums I may AFFIRM: the truth is ALL the CONTRARY to what you assert!! (...at least over the late70's-early80's period... now however, Jarre doesn't seem to be anymore so concerned in "deep sound meaning"...) ;-) "Open WIDE your ears and (try to) LISTEN... (again)" ):-))
And it's strange you can't find the early JMJ works he didi at the time ;)
Maybe it's better this way ...
Maybe, maybe not, early JMJ works may sound close to "GRM"! ( not fitted for the 'pop market', anyway... ) ...maybe, perhaps, _ /o o\ Filtre4Pole \ ~ / I I - -
Filtre4Pole schrieb am 12.10.2002 1:39 Uhr:
I'm *relatively* familiar to the oeuvre of Pierre Schaeffer, and I'm far away from overrating him, but it seems to me that there are at best superficial relations between his works and the recordings of JMJ.
ok, but we are talking here about 'influences' ( not 'copying'! ;-)
Who is "we"? I for my part talked about relations.
*rotflol* (you're not kidding here???) ):-))
(that means OBVIOUSLY you don't KNOW "Oxygene" & "Equinoxe" (??) ;-)) I'm afraid your opinion is ABSOLUTELY wrong!! Sorry!
An opinion can't be described in terms like "right" or "wrong". Far be it from me to pass judgement on other people's taste. But I can assure you: I know the mentioned records up to the last groove, since they were released, and I'm not going to change my mind. Jean Michel Jarre, IMHO, is a musician with great craft skills, but what he does is in the first line just arts and craft. I agree with you that "Oxygene" is (still) his best record (and there are some good moments on "The Concerts In China" and "Revolutions"), but whatever happens, it's just calculated for effect. After ten minutes of listening I'm bored to death with it, I can't help. It's musically one-dimensional and unimaginative. But yes, he's clever. The James Last of electronic music. Not to mention JMJ's conceited live (?) appearences with gigantic choirs, orchestras, faked laser harp, virtual hamburger kitchens and what else, like the latest fairground sensation ... It's all a bit laughable. But I say it again: This is just my opinion. No one is forced to share it. -jan __________________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de Yahoo! präsentiert als offizieller Sponsor das Fußball-Highlight des Jahres: - http://www.FIFAworldcup.com
le 12/10/2002 19:15, Jan R. a écrit :
An opinion can't be described in terms like "right" or "wrong". Far be it from me to pass judgement on other people's taste.
I didn't mean that your "taste" opinion was "wrong"...(?) Sorry, I COMPLETELY RESPECT and understand your taste and appreciation about Jarre! of course!! ;-) However, no matter of taste here: When you gave your own "Jarre not interested in deep sound meaning" analysis (a judgement you called yourself 'opinion'(!)) I HAD to contradict you because your analysis was so obviously wrong - even "ridiculous" for the clever man I guess you are - and that made me *lol* too :-)) (so, I hope you'll understand now, why I reacted...)
[...] faked laser harp, [...]
??? *lol* do you still believe that "old legend"?? ;-) The laser harp is actually a kind of "master keyboard", it's a TRUE MIDI controller ( notes, velocity... ). fyi: the very first model used during the concerts in China had an analog CV/gate interface... as like Florian's early "electronic flute" had! :-)
But I say it again: This is just my opinion. No one is forced to share it.
Don't worry, I agree with you, peace ;-) maybe could we share some common opinions about... Kraftwerk? :-) ...maybe, perhaps, _ /o o\ Filtre4Pole \ ~ / I I - -
Filtre4Pole schrieb am 14.10.2002 18:35 Uhr:
However, no matter of taste here: When you gave your own "Jarre not interested in deep sound meaning" analysis (a judgement you called yourself 'opinion'(!)) I HAD to contradict you because your analysis was so obviously wrong - even "ridiculous" for the clever man I guess you are - and that made me *lol* too :-))
I wrote: "JMJ in my humble opinion did never and does not. He's not interested in deeply listening. He's a very talented supplier of flashes in the pan. - But that's a matter of taste ..." No analysis there. In the given context, "he's not interested" is clearly an expression of opinion. So laugh, if you want to.
[...] faked laser harp, [...]
??? *lol* do you still believe that "old legend"?? ;-)
Sorry, but I'm not familiar with old JMJ legends. And better let's not argue what is played live, what is fake, what is playback or what is sequenced in electronic pop music concerts. My impression when I watched the China movie was: This laser harp may be a workable remote controlling unit, but in this performance the accompanying melody is not generated by using the laser beams as a keyboard. You can *see* that. At best he uses it for step-by-step-triggering a sequencer. But that would be what I call a fake. And BTW, I had the same impression while watching the Lyon performance on tv.
The laser harp is actually a kind of "master keyboard", it's a TRUE MIDI controller ( notes, velocity... ). fyi: the very first model used during the concerts in China had an analog CV/gate interface... as like Florian's early "electronic flute" had! :-)
Yes, maybe. Florian's electronic flute is a remote keyboard, and at least in Hamburg 1981 he played it live, I have no doubt about that. The laser harp maybe a remote controller unit too. Well?
maybe could we share some common opinions about... Kraftwerk? :-)
Ja, ja. ;-) Best, -jan __________________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de Möchten Sie mit einem Gruß antworten? http://grusskarten.yahoo.de
le 11/10/2002 13:21, Jan R. a écrit :
Filtre4Pole ( mich! ) schrieb am 11.10.2002 1:05 Uhr:
Even if he (JMJ) admitted to be (only) influenced by composers like Nino Rota or Pierre Schaeffer ( reffering to early interviews ),
Rota and Schaeffer would have turned in their graves if they ever happened to hear that.
*lol* not sure ;-) surprised? It's not so illogical... "open wide your ears and listen..." ...maybe, perhaps, _ /o o\ Filtre4Pole \ ~ / I I - -
----- Original Message ----- From: "Filtre4Pole" <catmeow@wanadoo.fr>
I've always been convinced Kraftwerk had a real influence on Jarre's music, especially in late 70's! For example: listen again to "Equinoxe" ( if you don't know it, you must discover that true electronic-music masterpiece recorded in 1978 ) well... it's obvious: "Equinoxe" ( particularly Part.4/5/6/7 ) contains typical advanced electro-synth-sounds(+vocoder!) textures, nice melodies, deep analog-sequences... rythm machines...
Those things could come from anywhere, perhaps from JMJ himself since he worked with synths and sequencing since the 60s. They are not unique KW elements. And there are no Vocoders on Equinoxe. Jarre described his techniques for those sounds in a 1979 interview with Sound On Sound. They are sounds from the ARP 2600 modified by effect equipment created by Michel Geiss. Glenn http://www.jarretribute.com
le 12/10/02 10:26, Glenn Folkvord - Hyperion Media à glenn@folkvord.net a écrit :
They are sounds from the ARP 2600 modified by effect equipment created by Michel Geiss.
Hey I know this guy! he seems quite reasonnable usually, must have been forced into it ;) Denis D) NOT name dropping
le 12/10/2002 10:26, Glenn Folkvord - Hyperion Media a écrit :
And there are no Vocoders on Equinoxe. Jarre described his techniques for those sounds in a 1979 interview with Sound On Sound. They are sounds from the ARP 2600 modified by effect equipment created by Michel Geiss.
...all is not told in an interview... I have to precise: typical KW-"voice-coded" sounds not found on "Equinoxe" indeed... The EMS vocoder was used not to process audible speech-voices but to create original sounds by processing more abstracted sound sources - Kraftwerk also do that! -... ( fyi: with a vocoder (almost) all is allowed ;-) ) But you're also right: Geiss deeply collaborated with JMJarre on "Oxygene" & "Equinoxe", building/customizing some gears specially for him, he helped on ARP patches programming... ...maybe, perhaps, _ /o o\ Filtre4Pole \ ~ / I I - -
le 14/10/2002 18:43, I've got a LASER, Earthman! à lepetitmartien@macmusic.org a écrit :
le 14/10/02 18:35, Filtre4Pole (c'est moi) a écrit :
But you're also right: Geiss deeply collaborated with JMJarre on "Oxygene" & "Equinoxe", building/customizing some gears specially for him, he helped on ARP patches programming...
Do you want me to ask ?
...you might ask him about an eventual modification on an Electro-Harmonix Small Stone phase shifter...? ;-) ... I guess by now Michel Geiss is more "G4-digital" than "2600-analog" ...? ;-) ...maybe, perhaps, _ /o o\ Filtre4Pole \ ~ / I I - -
le 15/10/02 12:47, Filtre4Pole à catmeow@wanadoo.fr a écrit :
...you might ask him about an eventual modification on an Electro-Harmonix Small Stone phase shifter...? ;-)
... I guess by now Michel Geiss is more "G4-digital" than "2600-analog" ...? ;-)
Michel ? he's a really really well respected engineer in Paris. Come to my macmusic forums. the EH mod, it's a joke ? or an info ? :) I can ask. in fact he's more ProTools than something else :))) Denis K)
There are some pics at http://kraftwerk.hu -> 'Paris 2002' -> 'The Stage' BT
le 15/10/2002 19:16, I've got a LASER, Earthman! à lepetitmartien@macmusic.org a écrit :
le 15/10/02 12:47, Filtre4Pole à catmeow@wanadoo.fr a écrit :
...you might ask him about an eventual modification on an Electro-Harmonix Small Stone phase shifter...? ;-)
... I guess by now Michel Geiss is more "G4-digital" than "2600-analog" ...? ;-)
Michel ?
he's a really really well respected engineer in Paris. Come to my macmusic forums.
Yes, I think he is a "master"! He also write (wrote?) from time to time some pertinent articles about recording, mixing, mastering, (and also synth&kb and software tests) for music/audio mags, like Keyboards. ...a member of macmusic.org now ?
the EH mod, it's a joke ? or an info ? :)
maybe... info! (I got from far "ancient" source) He modified the power supply on that phasing pedal: 8 volt instead of 9 V - or something like that -, for a "low battery effect" simulation... All those very typical phasing-sound pads we can hear on "Oxygene" & "Equinoxe" are processed by this Electro-Harmonix phaser... ;-)
in fact he's more ProTools than something else :)))
Yes, I think so! ...but definitely Mac platform... ;-) ...maybe, perhaps, _ /o o\ Filtre4Pole \ ~ / I I - -
le 15/10/02 22:14, Filtre4Pole à catmeow@wanadoo.fr a écrit :
Yes, I think he is a "master"! He also write (wrote?) from time to time some pertinent articles about recording, mixing, mastering, (and also synth&kb and software tests) for music/audio mags, like Keyboards. ...a member of macmusic.org now ?
yes all the pros there are on their knees before him ;)
maybe... info! (I got from far "ancient" source) He modified the power supply on that phasing pedal: 8 volt instead of 9 V - or something like that -, for a "low battery effect" simulation... All those very typical phasing-sound pads we can hear on "Oxygene" & "Equinoxe" are processed by this Electro-Harmonix phaser... ;-)
9V to 8V not that difficult to do.
Yes, I think so! ...but definitely Mac platform... ;-)
...maybe, perhaps,
mhmm wonder why he's on macmu ;) I'll ask him tonight Denis G)
----- Original Message ----- From: <johan.andersson@allers.aller.se>
There where some reports to the list about Jarre attending one of the Paris shows, does anybody know if JMJ ever in interviews has mentioned KW as a source of inspiration - or mentioned them at all?
In a 1979 interview in USA while promoting his albums, Jarre mentioned that he wasnt too fond of Kraftwerk's robotic approach about *performing* their music. Since then I think he has grown more into liking some of their compositions than before. Glenn http://www.jarretribute.com
participants (6)
-
Filtre4Pole -
Glenn Folkvord - Hyperion Media -
I've got a LASER, Earthman! -
Jan R. -
johan.andersson＠allers.aller.se -
Powerplant