Spoilers for the Tyranny of the Night I haven't been online for a day or three - I've been reading this book at every spare moment. I hated putting it down. First, since some mail programs don't like lots of spaces before the text, a quick overview: This is three intertwined stories. One following a group that is associated with a variant of the old Norse gods, one a variant of Mameluke society (the slave soldiers of the caliphs), and a variant of a Catharist Perfect. Different terms are used but it basically looking at pagan, Christian (with heavy Gnostic overtones), and Islam belief in a world where the 'gods' are (maybe) manifestations of magical energy collected and given form. Did the creator God create man or did man's vision imposed on this magical energy create all the gods? That's a question that is mentally debated a few times in the book - an labeled a chicken and the egg one. Magical energy flows freely on this world but collects in "wells". There are 7 or 8 major wells in areas where much of the worlds gods / spirits / things that go bump in the night come from, and countless small wellsprings of power (for example, there's one going to where the norse type gods live). These power flows tend to be warmer than the ground around them, and this heat combined with the power movement in the Wells is an important factor in keeping the ice from advancing (holding off an ice age). In 'civilized' areas the various spirits, gods, and powers have all been banished or destroyed - or so it appears. The setting is clearly the Mediterranean area just before the renaissance. Countries have been relabeled, but you can spot Roman (Brothe), the Holy Roman Empire (the Grail Empire), the various Islamic groups, the Italian city states, France, Germany, and the Albigensian area. A translation guide might be worth looking at... But you don't need to know history to read this book - just because Cook borrows heavily on history is no reason you can't treat this as a normal fantasy world. Okay, that should be enough text. Now for some blank lines. To clear the screen before the spoilers. Because reading spoilers can be bad. Very bad. Okay, here's what I think is happening: Normally the Instruments of the Night are spawned, grow in power, then recycle their power into the wells as they are diminished. Some never really go, and this means an inbalance. Also, since the rise of the two big monotheologic groups more and more power has been directed to their views of God - which may be the same being, and possibly the same being as the Deves worship. This is leading to the cooling of the world. It think this is what is directing the plot - this ultra powerful being is working to move the ice back. A bit like the Director? Once there is a weapon that can affect the powerful Instruments this being inspires Else to use it to destroy a bogon - that's where his idea of using silver came from. Now on to some of the mysteries... Who killed Erief? Ask Vidgis about this one... She may have done it at the behest of her gods, but (I think) she gave the murder weapon (a dagger enchanted with his death) to her nephews to 'find' on the missionaries. They had it with them when they we taken to the Sky Fortress, left it there, and that's how it reappeared near the end of the book. What was the force that intervened when Shagot (representing the old gods), Starkden & Masant (representing the powers of magic), and Else (representing Man) battled? I'm of two minds on this. It could Rashal or something in the ring, or it could be the force behind the plot. I'm thinking it wasn't Arlensul - I can't see why it would be. Or more to the point - I can't see why Starkden & Masant survived if it was her. Maybe she would have kept the Godslayer alive to set up her battle with her father, but why did the sorcerers survive unless a factor wanted to see them latter brought down by guns firing iron and silver (driving home the lesson that Else should have learned)? Who was the angel that visited Stewpo? Again, I'm thinking it wasn't Arlensul. She might have wanted the Heroes killed, but she had other plans for that and wouldn't want to be on the field with the 'god killer weapons' being used. To me this is a sign of something pulling the strings in the background. Looking at his past series - how do the wizards of this one stack? Poorly. The most powerful one is 50 and looks 30 - he doesn't look like he'd give One-Eye a run for age, let alone one of the Taken. Their power seems based on sorcery (tapping magic from a magical source) rather than wizardry or personal power. There are grades for sensing / using power, but I doubt that Lady would notice the worse that Rashal could do. Speaking of old books, there's the Bones / Elmo comparison, but since Elmo was the classic 'grizzly old sergeant that survives everything' I think it's more reusing an archetype than borrowing from an old character. Anyhow, those are my thoughts Richard
**** As the subject states: This is a spoilers thread. Don't read if you haven't read the book. **** On Jun 16, 2005, at 12:19 PM, Richard Chilton wrote:
Spoilers for the Tyranny of the Night
I haven't been online for a day or three - I've been reading this book at every spare moment. I hated putting it down.
I had very different experience. I kept putting this book down. This book was a lot of boredom with the occasional bright spot of interest. Setting a book in our world, or one similar, with all the name changes was annoying. And worse, Glen seemed to enjoy sharing all these new names and places with no real framework to hang them on. A third of the way through I didn't care anymore and story got mired in the details. Or perhaps the lack of details. Too often Glen spent time in the details at some 30,000 foot level of the politics and geography and didn't spend time with the characters. He dropped the squad nature of Black Company and went back to the epic story of Dread Empire. But in the process he left the characters behind. The Dread Empire was done right. The Dread Empire had a big story to tell and Glen did a much better job of telling it with characters. These characters you got to know and love after the first book. Varthlokkur, Bragi, Mocker, Nepanthe, and Haroun are classic. I was hoping with a fresh trilogy that Glen would give us a new round of vibrant characters like Croaker, Goblin, Elmo, SoulCatcher, Lady, and Raven. But this book has no soul and not much Else. -- Sebastian <shpshftr@xmission.com>
Sebastian wrote:
Setting a book in our world, or one similar, with all the name changes was annoying. And worse, Glen seemed to enjoy sharing all these new names and places with no real framework to hang them on. A third of the way through I didn't care anymore and story got mired in the details.
Or perhaps the lack of details. Too often Glen spent time in the details at some 30,000 foot level of the politics and geography and didn't spend time with the characters. He dropped the squad nature of Black Company and went back to the epic story of Dread Empire. But in the process he left the characters behind.
The Dread Empire was done right. The Dread Empire had a big story to tell and Glen did a much better job of telling it with characters. These characters you got to know and love after the first book. Varthlokkur, Bragi, Mocker, Nepanthe, and Haroun are classic.
I was hoping with a fresh trilogy that Glen would give us a new round of vibrant characters like Croaker, Goblin, Elmo, SoulCatcher, Lady, and Raven. But this book has no soul and not much Else.
I've been sitting on my reply. Partially, because it took me awhile to get through the book, but mostly because I was hoping that I just missed the particular genius of the new series. However, I have to agree with Sebastian. Glen's characters are so smartly done that when he moves away from them the narrative goes flat. Especially when characters like Else have such interesting possibilities that are never developed. I see Glen's bind. He likes complicated plots with multiple players and in order to get it all out, he needs an explainer. But how many Mercenary Annalists and Ancient Space Ninja Turtle Masterminds can one have to present insights to world's macro-politics? I had imagined the Perfect Candle in that role, but he was always far from the center of the action. I have shelves full of histories written in the form of impersonal thick description. I don't need it in my vacation reading. I look to fantasy for unrealistically clear stories told by characters who are always uncannily close to the action. The narrative portions of the book were worth wading though the other parts, but I might wait to read the reviews before I pay full price for the next volume. Of course, that rule doesn't apply to the promised Black Company books. -Skull
I thought the characterization was quite strong for the primary players. The evolution of the hero's perspective on the who has the right of things in the world appears to be the mainspring of the reader's involvement, and I think that a very powerful dramatic trick. The geography is unfortunately complicated; but maybe just a map would help. Steve/Stacey
I finally finished ToN. It was some rough going. First let me say I did not get to read this book for long intervals and I am sure I missed things as a consequence. Here we go: There were so many characters I just couldn't bring myself to care about all of them. Brother Candle for instance. Why did we need to see that perspective? Duke Tormond served no purpose but to get the Connec involved which eventually led to justification for a Crusade that will probably occur in the next book. Did we really need to follow hi journey to se the Patriarch? I didn't care about any of the Bruglioni except maybe Polo. Now that that is out of the way, I enjoyed to book. I feel like the others, in that the character stuff was great and hindered only by the geographical and political details. It must be tough setting up a portion of a semi-realistic universe. I can appreciate the task and the necessity for detail. But it was tough reading. The end was great and I thought the Grimmsons were the most fun. Feel free to let me in on things I missed. I am going to re-read this book immediately. I think it will make more sense the second time around. I will probably buy the next one new in hardback. I am hoping that much of this one was setup Thanks for listening. Don -----Original Message----- From: glencook-fans-bounces+dfgarcia=grandecom.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:glencook-fans-bounces+dfgarcia=grandecom.net@mailman.xmission.co m]On Behalf Of Dr. Skull Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 12:21 AM To: Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] Spoilers for the Tyranny of the Night Sebastian wrote:
Setting a book in our world, or one similar, with all the name changes was annoying. And worse, Glen seemed to enjoy sharing all these new names and places with no real framework to hang them on. A third of the way through I didn't care anymore and story got mired in the details.
Or perhaps the lack of details. Too often Glen spent time in the details at some 30,000 foot level of the politics and geography and didn't spend time with the characters. He dropped the squad nature of Black Company and went back to the epic story of Dread Empire. But in the process he left the characters behind.
The Dread Empire was done right. The Dread Empire had a big story to tell and Glen did a much better job of telling it with characters. These characters you got to know and love after the first book. Varthlokkur, Bragi, Mocker, Nepanthe, and Haroun are classic.
I was hoping with a fresh trilogy that Glen would give us a new round of vibrant characters like Croaker, Goblin, Elmo, SoulCatcher, Lady, and Raven. But this book has no soul and not much Else.
I've been sitting on my reply. Partially, because it took me awhile to get through the book, but mostly because I was hoping that I just missed the particular genius of the new series. However, I have to agree with Sebastian. Glen's characters are so smartly done that when he moves away from them the narrative goes flat. Especially when characters like Else have such interesting possibilities that are never developed. I see Glen's bind. He likes complicated plots with multiple players and in order to get it all out, he needs an explainer. But how many Mercenary Annalists and Ancient Space Ninja Turtle Masterminds can one have to present insights to world's macro-politics? I had imagined the Perfect Candle in that role, but he was always far from the center of the action. I have shelves full of histories written in the form of impersonal thick description. I don't need it in my vacation reading. I look to fantasy for unrealistically clear stories told by characters who are always uncannily close to the action. The narrative portions of the book were worth wading though the other parts, but I might wait to read the reviews before I pay full price for the next volume. Of course, that rule doesn't apply to the promised Black Company books. -Skull _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.10/73 - Release Date: 8/15/2005
I thought the group might enjoy this interview. http://www.sfsite.com/10a/gc209.htm
Thank you for the message about the interview. Glen is one of the greatest, isn't he? Thanks again. Charles Cunningham Jackpot, NV
Finally got a minute to toss my $0.02 into the mix. I have to disagree with all the lukewarm reviews of Tyranny of the Night. I finished it the same way that I finish most of his books: wishing it had been longer. In fact, I think it's as much fun as anything he's written (e.g., the first three Black Company books); and I think only Tower of Fear challenges it for sophistication of narrative style. It's like a bag of flint chips and glass shards--spiky, fractured, dense, and hard. Call me a nut, but I like that. And I don't mean it's "tough-guy" fiction. It's more like Glen is determined to just get on with it (interviews with Glen suggest that this describes his attitude about writing as well as the finished product). Even in the most contrived and silly situations, his sentences maintain a kind of matter-of-factness that makes suspension of disbelief a breeze. Contrary to what I'm hearing from other folks, I can relax into this kind of narration; I don't have to stifle groans of boredom or herniate myself trying to sustain my immersion in the story's world. Zelazny was a master at this sort of "courtesy of brevity, on-with-the-story-and-out-with-the-bullshit" approach. Of course, it demands that you keep up; and if Glen's fiction is more like coffee than tea, this one's espresso. Hang on to your hat, baby. Another (closely related) thing Glen does really well is build a world through the perspective of his characters, rather than through gobs of omniscient-narrator description. If I were comparing the text of TOTN to visual art, I'd compare it to a spare but evocative charcoal sketch (maybe with the edges burned and a coffee stain or two); I'd compare the prose of most other fantasy writers to a landscape done in slathers of primary-color acrylic. I don't have the book handy or I'd dig up a for-instance; but the gist is that the way his characters react to and think about things builds the world, while the matter-of-factness of how they do that makes it feel real. It's a "showing not telling" kind of writing. Glen hands you enough to hang on to, then lets your reading apparatus fill in the rest. What he leaves *out* is a huge component in the success of his writing. Somebody said that the way Hemingway wrote was to put a big, metaphorical arm around the reader, sigh, and say, "Friend, you and I know how the world is. All I need to tell you is a few details and you'll understand." I.e., the understatement of the prose deepens the reader's experience because it demands that you share the narrator's assumptions and reactions. Glen has some of that, and more of it in TOTN than anywhere else than Tower of Fear. In fact, TOTN seems largely *about* how crucial your assumptions are to your experience of the world. Glen is writing about a world in which gobs of characters and a welter of perspectives are colliding and competing for dominance, for the right to explain what's happening and why. In other words, what some reviewers appear to be complaining about (multitudes of characters who cycle on and off stage very quickly, too much information) seems to be the point here, not the result of failed technique. I don't think TOTN is meta-fiction (i.e., I don't think Glen is writing about his own writing style), but the style and substance do seem perfectly married here. As to the accusation that all these characters are "thin," I just plain disagree. Glen gets a shitload of mileage out of a few sentences; I'm in Else's worldview, or Brother Candle's, or the bloody Vikings, after a few phrases. The combat between these perspectives is what the book is all about; so they fly around the unknowable events and powers that are driving the story like leaves in a storm. Another old saw (most recently codified by Douglas Adams, I think) is that the universe is essentially unknowable and its principles invisible. Our beliefs, rituals, politics, etc., are like a handful of flour thrown on that invisible structure; useless in and of themselves, they serve as a medium to help define that invisible shape. That's how I read all the perspectives in TOTN; and I don't mind their multiplicity. Any "confusion" that generates is part of the point. But I understand that you can't really talk somebody into thinking a character isn't weak. I'm not trying to convert, just to explain why I like this book that so many people (even Glen's fans) seem not to like. Maybe my acceptance of what some readers have criticized as a jumble of "extraneous" facts came easy because I expected TOTN to be a "first book"; i.e., I knew that Glen was setting the stage for things later on. So, for example, I didn't think the chapters about Brother Candle were a waste of time; I expected BC's perspective to be important in the later books, and I thought that the facts of his story would support the plot of those books. From an interview I read recently (it's been posted here), it looks like the second book will focus on a war in the Connec, so I think I was right on that one. Can't wait for Book 2. LJ
I hear you. That's why I am reading it again. I think I will enjoy it much more the second time. I am sure Brother Candle will be important in later books. It is just tough hanging out with him for long stretches when he doesn't have a major role in the current book. You know I think this book could have used a character list like Tower of Fear had. Just a thought. Don -----Original Message----- From: glencook-fans-bounces+dfgarcia=grandecom.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:glencook-fans-bounces+dfgarcia=grandecom.net@mailman.xmission.co m]On Behalf Of ljenab@sunflower.com Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 3:32 PM To: Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author Subject: re: Re: [Glencook-fans] Review of Tyranny of the Night Finally got a minute to toss my $0.02 into the mix. I have to disagree with all the lukewarm reviews of Tyranny of the Night. I finished it the same way that I finish most of his books: wishing it had been longer. In fact, I think it's as much fun as anything he's written (e.g., the first three Black Company books); and I think only Tower of Fear challenges it for sophistication of narrative style. It's like a bag of flint chips and glass shards--spiky, fractured, dense, and hard. Call me a nut, but I like that. And I don't mean it's "tough-guy" fiction. It's more like Glen is determined to just get on with it (interviews with Glen suggest that this describes his attitude about writing as well as the finished product). Even in the most contrived and silly situations, his sentences maintain a kind of matter-of-factness that makes suspension of disbelief a breeze. Contrary to what I'm hearing from other folks, I can relax into this kind of narration; I don't have to stifle groans of boredom or herniate myself trying to sustain my immersion in the story's world. Zelazny was a master at this sort of "courtesy of brevity, on-with-the-story-and-out-with-the-bullshit" approach. Of course, it demands that you keep up; and if Glen's fiction is more like coffee than tea, this one's espresso. Hang on to your hat, baby. Another (closely related) thing Glen does really well is build a world through the perspective of his characters, rather than through gobs of omniscient-narrator description. If I were comparing the text of TOTN to visual art, I'd compare it to a spare but evocative charcoal sketch (maybe with the edges burned and a coffee stain or two); I'd compare the prose of most other fantasy writers to a landscape done in slathers of primary-color acrylic. I don't have the book handy or I'd dig up a for-instance; but the gist is that the way his characters react to and think about things builds the world, while the matter-of-factness of how they do that makes it feel real. It's a "showing not telling" kind of writing. Glen hands you enough to hang on to, then lets your reading apparatus fill in the rest. What he leaves *out* is a huge component in the success of his writing. Somebody said that the way Hemingway wrote was to put a big, metaphorical arm around the reader, sigh, and say, "Friend, you and I know how the world is. All I need to tell you is a few details and you'll understand." I.e., the understatement of the prose deepens the reader's experience because it demands that you share the narrator's assumptions and reactions. Glen has some of that, and more of it in TOTN than anywhere else than Tower of Fear. In fact, TOTN seems largely *about* how crucial your assumptions are to your experience of the world. Glen is writing about a world in which gobs of characters and a welter of perspectives are colliding and competing for dominance, for the right to explain what's happening and why. In other words, what some reviewers appear to be complaining about (multitudes of characters who cycle on and off stage very quickly, too much information) seems to be the point here, not the result of failed technique. I don't think TOTN is meta-fiction (i.e., I don't think Glen is writing about his own writing style), but the style and substance do seem perfectly married here. As to the accusation that all these characters are "thin," I just plain disagree. Glen gets a shitload of mileage out of a few sentences; I'm in Else's worldview, or Brother Candle's, or the bloody Vikings, after a few phrases. The combat between these perspectives is what the book is all about; so they fly around the unknowable events and powers that are driving the story like leaves in a storm. Another old saw (most recently codified by Douglas Adams, I think) is that the universe is essentially unknowable and its principles invisible. Our beliefs, rituals, politics, etc., are like a handful of flour thrown on that invisible structure; useless in and of themselves, they serve as a medium to help define that invisible shape. That's how I read all the perspectives in TOTN; and I don't mind their multiplicity. Any "confusion" that generates is part of the point. But I understand that you can't really talk somebody into thinking a character isn't weak. I'm not trying to convert, just to explain why I like this book that so many people (even Glen's fans) seem not to like. Maybe my acceptance of what some readers have criticized as a jumble of "extraneous" facts came easy because I expected TOTN to be a "first book"; i.e., I knew that Glen was setting the stage for things later on. So, for example, I didn't think the chapters about Brother Candle were a waste of time; I expected BC's perspective to be important in the later books, and I thought that the facts of his story would support the plot of those books.
From an interview I read recently (it's been posted here), it looks like the second book will focus on a war in the Connec, so I think I was right on that one.
Can't wait for Book 2. LJ _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.10/119 - Release Date: 10/4/2005
I thought the group might enjoy this interview.
Wow, some big news in there! A possible reissue of the Dread Empire series and titles for the next two Black Company novels. Not to mention amusing commentary from Glen. :-) Steve
Steve Chew <schew@interzone.com> wrote:
I thought the group might enjoy this interview.
Wow, some big news in there! A possible reissue of the Dread Empire series and titles for the next two Black Company novels. Not to mention amusing commentary from Glen. :-) Steve Cool beans! Whoever stole the last Dread Empire book should be ground into hamburger, though. LJ _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
I agree with the hamburger comment. For the last ten years, since I first discovered Glen and the Dread Empire, I have been hoping that the unpublished book would someday be published. Talk about having your hopes crushed with one line. As you can guess, the Dread series is my favourite of all his stuff. I just love the rawness of the prose. I found the writing style to be very unique. If that bastard is part of this list; "Please return It!". An envelope with no return address would take care of this. Mike ljenab@sunflower.com wrote:
Steve Chew wrote:
I thought the group might enjoy this interview.
Wow, some big news in there! A possible reissue of the Dread Empire series and titles for the next two Black Company novels. Not to mention amusing commentary from Glen. :-) Steve Cool beans! Whoever stole the last Dread Empire book should be ground into hamburger, though. LJ _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
_______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
I can kind of see why Mr Cook seems to be turned off by fans now. Something like that is hard to forgive and even harder to forget. I think the interview said it was stolen in the mid 80s. I can't imagine sitting on something like that for that long. Its probably garbage by now. Don -----Original Message----- From: glencook-fans-bounces+dfgarcia=grandecom.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:glencook-fans-bounces+dfgarcia=grandecom.net@mailman.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Mike Koshel Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 3:43 PM To: Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author Subject: [Glencook-fans] OT- Glen Cook Interview (Dread Empire comment) I agree with the hamburger comment. For the last ten years, since I first discovered Glen and the Dread Empire, I have been hoping that the unpublished book would someday be published. Talk about having your hopes crushed with one line. As you can guess, the Dread series is my favourite of all his stuff. I just love the rawness of the prose. I found the writing style to be very unique. If that bastard is part of this list; "Please return It!". An envelope with no return address would take care of this. Mike ljenab@sunflower.com wrote: > Steve Chew wrote: > > >I thought the group might enjoy this interview. > >http://www.sfsite.com/10a/gc209.htm > Wow, some big news in there! A possible reissue of the Dread Empire series and titles for the next two Black Company novels. Not to mention amusing commentary from Glen. :-) Steve Cool beans! Whoever stole the last Dread Empire book should be ground into hamburger, though. LJ _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans > _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
It probably has been garbaged, but one can only hope it might still surface. Don <dfgarcia@grandecom.net> wrote:I can kind of see why Mr Cook seems to be turned off by fans now. Something like that is hard to forgive and even harder to forget. I think the interview said it was stolen in the mid 80s. I can't imagine sitting on something like that for that long. Its probably garbage by now. Don -----Original Message----- From: glencook-fans-bounces+dfgarcia=grandecom.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:glencook-fans-bounces+dfgarcia=grandecom.net@mailman.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Mike Koshel Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 3:43 PM To: Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author Subject: [Glencook-fans] OT- Glen Cook Interview (Dread Empire comment) I agree with the hamburger comment. For the last ten years, since I first discovered Glen and the Dread Empire, I have been hoping that the unpublished book would someday be published. Talk about having your hopes crushed with one line. As you can guess, the Dread series is my favourite of all his stuff. I just love the rawness of the prose. I found the writing style to be very unique. If that bastard is part of this list; "Please return It!". An envelope with no return address would take care of this. Mike ljenab@sunflower.com wrote:
Steve Chew wrote:
I thought the group might enjoy this interview.
Wow, some big news in there! A possible reissue of the Dread Empire series and titles for the next two Black Company novels. Not to mention amusing commentary from Glen. :-) Steve Cool beans! Whoever stole the last Dread Empire book should be ground into hamburger, though. LJ _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
_______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
participants (9)
-
Charles Cunningham -
Don -
Dr. Skull -
ljenab＠sunflower.com -
Mike Koshel -
Richard Chilton -
Sebastian -
Stacey Harris -
Steve Chew