September 2018 - glencook-fans - mailman.xmission.com

SPOILERS for Port of Shadows
by Lawrence Jenab 30 Sep '18

30 Sep '18

Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers Well. It's certainly nice to hear from Croaker again, especially in the timeframe that produced the best BC novels (i.e., before they headed south). And there is much here to enjoy. Croaker turns a great phrase, and the cast of characters in the BC universe is simply a joy to experience. That said, however, this was a strange and unsatisfying read for me. Glen has made some odd narrative decisions, most of them unsuccessful. I've never been a fan of the "unreliable narrator" tactic, unless it is brilliantly implemented, which isn't here. Instead, we have Croaker confused, worrying about his unreliable memory of the few items of information he *is* able to get his hands on, chewing on his frustration for 400 pages and then never managing to put the threads together before having his memory of the relevant period wiped entirely. So, for example, instead of a resolution, we get what appears to be a deliberate undermining of what we thought we understood about the identities of the Senjak sisters. (FWIW, my understanding is that Mischievous Rain is the Lady, either in person or as her sorceress avatar, and Laissa somehow ends up being Soulcatcher, despite having been dead for quite a while. Please correct me if I'm wrong.) The whole story ends up feeling like a barely remembered dream, and not a particularly pleasant one, never my favorite storytelling tactic and IMO totally at odds with the blunt and prosaic narration of the best Company novels, in which the straightforward language is in deliberate contrast to the inflated prose of other fantasy novels. I might be wrong about this, but I also didn't like that so much of the book consists of recycled short stories. It never felt to me as if those stories were intended to be, or even worked as, parts of a larger narrative; instead, it feels like Glen tried to take a shortcut by gluing together material he already had lying around and trying to force it into a longer story. This just did not feel like a story that needed to be told; it felt instead like a book that needed to be delivered, and this was the easiest (maybe the only) way he could do it. This may be just a superstition of mine, but any novel that begins and ends with disclaimers about how "we're pretty sure 80% of this is wrong and the 20% of it that is right doesn't line up with what we thought we knew" is probably headed off the rails. I agree with others who lament the absence of any meaningful action by anyone in the Company. Their role is usually to do – directly, practically, and forcefully – here, they are merely done unto. While (in other books) their employers may try to keep them in the dark, they are crafty and resourceful and figure out a way to decide their own fate. Here, they are essentially passive, sad, and frustrated, until the entire incident is simply erased from their memory. I'm not saying it's impossible to write a good book from that perspective, but this wasn't it. Frankly, I found it very frustrating to read about the Captain, Lieutenant, One-Eye, Silent, et al, doing nothing, hanging around the periphery of a story that ultimately is never really told because Croaker has no idea what's going on and never finds out. Croaker's occasional lament that he is "forgetting his usual narrative method and instead focusing entirely on himself and his own confusion" feels like Glen being defensive about a weak story as he is writing it. And what I always like about Glen is that he is usually, emphatically, the opposite of defensive. I also agree that there is an unpleasant undercurrent of creepy sexual behavior. I don't object to that at all as part of a story in which it makes sense, but here it just seemed intrusive and gratuitous. Pedophilia, necrophilia, rape, religious prostitution, a "slutty" local morality, etc. are just strewn around the story, seemingly lurking in every shadow of both the plot in general and Croaker's imagination, to no narrative purpose I can detect. And in that context, repeated scenes of Croaker's six-year-old daughter snuggling in bed with him are maybe intended to stand out as "healthy" by contrast, but instead just kept me asking, in a book brimming with references to pedophilia, why am I constantly being reminded of this? Unfortunately, this all seems to fit a trend in Glen's most recent novels (including the most recent Garrett and Instrumentalities installments) – longer, slower, less action, more rumination, looser stories, longer digressions, more highfalutin prose, frequently murky faux-noir language (where we are supposed to figure out from what is omitted what is really being said, but in a way that doesn't quite land), an emphasis on melancholy bordering on sentimentality, and a weird and persistent preoccupation with age-asymmetrical sex. The one thing that did work here, at least for me, was how Glen communicated Croaker's gradual acceptance and then cherishing of a domestic life amidst the violence and brutality of the Company's world. There was real poignancy in every step of this acceptance, given that Croaker was sure it would be taken away from him eventually. I think this emotional arc would have been even more effective if it had been drawn against a more typical Company story, rather than this one of enforced passivity, where Croaker really had nothing else to focus on. That lingering, somber note of love and loss is really what stands out for me after putting the book on the shelf. In a better novel, it could have been devastatingly effective; here, it's the only coherent and affecting piece of an otherwise mixed up story, so it just sort of sits there. My $0.02. Larry

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Spoilers for Port of Shadows (initial reaction)
by Stacey Harris 26 Sep '18

26 Sep '18

S P O I L E R S for Port of Shadows S P O I L E R S S P O I L E R S for Port of Shadows S P O I L E R S Wow. FInished it a few hours ago. Wow. Okay, I shoulda seen it coming. I was asking myself all along, who/what IS this Mysterious Rain? I can't make head or tails out of it. Shoulda twigged, but didn't. Just as well, that made it all the more staggering when Laissa greeted her with "Koneko!" and my rudimentary Japanese kicked in to translate that as "Kitten". Wow, all making sense! That said. Yeah, narrative voice is off from the old-style BC books. I thought I caught a whiff of the type of narrative voice from Instrumentalities that I don't much care for (too much mysterious stuff referred to mysteriously); but I'm not clear on that. Definitely not to be read before "The White Rose"! But I think it might not be a bad thing to have it read then; gives a background explanation for Lady. In fact... The feel of ancient sorceries coming to the fore again is nice--a little bit more of what we saw in "Silver Spike". Wish there there descriptions of them. But even without them it lays the foundation for the Kina and the like, of Really Powerful Stuff having happened in what is now pre-history, as no records have been found of those times (making Travellers' Rest all the more important!). And now we know why: Sorcerious types go to great lengths to purge those records, even in living memories. So that's a good tie-up 😊 Stacey

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Re: [Glencook-fans] Spoilers for Port of Shadows (initial reaction)
by Matt Cutter 22 Sep '18

22 Sep '18

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 9:18 PM, Stacey Harris <stacey.harris(a)slu.edu> wrote: S P O I L E R S for Port of Shadows S P O I L E R S S P O I L E R S for Port of Shadows S P O I L E R S > Wow. FInished it a few hours ago. Wow. > > Okay, I shoulda seen it coming. I was asking myself all along, who/what IS this Mysterious Rain? I can't make head or tails out of it. Shoulda twigged, but > didn't. Just as well, that made it all the more staggering when Laissa greeted her with "Koneko!" > and my rudimentary Japanese kicked in to translate that as "Kitten". Wow, all making sense! > > That said. Nice bilingual bonus! I never would catch that. Since none of the back story matches up with Whisper's notes, I wonder what's true. Maybe cleared up by Pitiless Rain? > Yeah, narrative voice is off from the old-style BC books. I thought I caught a whiff of the type of narrative voice from Instrumentalities that I don't much > care for (too much mysterious stuff referred to mysteriously); but I'm not clear on that. > > Definitely not to be read before "The White Rose"! But I think it might not be a bad thing to have it read then; gives a background explanation for Lady. In > fact... > > The feel of ancient sorceries coming to the fore again is nice--a little bit more of what we saw in "Silver Spike". Wish there there descriptions of them. But > even without them it lays the foundation for the Kina and the like, of Really Powerful Stuff > having happened in what is now pre-history, as no records have been found of those times (making Travellers' Rest all the more important!). And now we > know why: Sorcerious types go to great lengths to purge those records, even in living memories. It is a nice tie-in to the world-building. It gives the history more depth. Deep History, if you will. This is a theme Glen visits a lot in his fantasy novels: The Swordbearer, The Tower of Fear, the Dread Empire series. The Star Fishers's SF series visits this theme a lot, too.

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Garrett waiting for a resolution...
by Matt Cutter 19 Sep '18

19 Sep '18

-------------------------------------------- On Wed, 9/12/18, Jerry Kalayjian <jkalayjian(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > Poor Garrett is out there waiting resolution too. The close of Wicked Bronze Ambitions *could* be a series ending... Garrett goes to face the dawn and his wife. It's awfully ambiguous, but I read it as an upbeat ending. Strafa survived, Garrett's made it through his crisis of faith, and a new day is dawning. My Dad...read it completely opposite. We've been around this a few times. I can see his point, but it still reads like an ending to me. I'd love another Garrett book to clear up the ambiguity, but I'm not sure we'll get one. There's only so much time left.

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Port of Shadows - Spoilers, ho!
by Matt Cutter 19 Sep '18

19 Sep '18

Spoiler space for anyone using a preview pane. R e m e m b e r t o p q u o t i n g i s a s i n ! So. I've read Port. I've enjoyed Port. It's good to have Croaker back as narrator. However, I agree it's a bit coarser and the narrative voice seems...off. Part of that can be attributed to the Croaker's memory problems and part of it to the changes in past and present narration. I wish we know who was narrating the Postscript. There are throwaway lines in there that'll cause me fits of trying to figure things out on reread after reread. "...wars among the Taken."? The Taken all fell at the Barrowland! What happened to Two Death?! To Third? Come on, I'm dying here!

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Re: [Glencook-fans] I'm going to make a prediction about Pitiless Rain...
by Matt Cutter 18 Sep '18

18 Sep '18

***still, spoilers**** ***still, no seriously*** Oh, shiny! I hadn't even considered that, and it was right in front of me the whole time! Maybe the witchy-girl from Bone Eaters is another copy girl... -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 9/18/18, grim <grim213(a)aol.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] I'm going to make a prediction about Pitiless Rain... To: "Matt Cutter" <thorr_kan(a)yahoo.com>, "Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author" <glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, September 18, 2018, 8:43 PM ***spoilers**** ***no seriously*** For my two cents, if the next book is a sequel, I wonder if Pitiless Rain will refer to Mischievous Rain, specifically the Lady version of Mischievous Rain. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 18, 2018, at 4:50 PM, Matt Cutter via glencook-fans <glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > > Minor spoiler for Port of Shadow's after the jump. > > Wikipedia has Pitiless Rain as the last Black Company book, release date unknown. Based on a passage from Port of Shadows, an non-Y2K compliant crystal ball, and a whole lot of wild speculation, I think Pitiless Rain is going to be a *prequel* to The Black Company. > > "But Matt," you say, "we already have a post-White Rose short story: Bone Eaters!" > > Yup. Standalone, I think. > > S > p > o > i > l > e > r > s > > a > f > t > e > r > > t > h > e > > j > u > m > p > . > > The phrase "pitiless rain" is made once by Croaker towards the end of the novel, in a throwaway line about his childhood. > > _______________________________________________ > glencook-fans mailing list > glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans

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I'm going to make a prediction about Pitiless Rain...
by Matt Cutter 18 Sep '18

18 Sep '18

Minor spoiler for Port of Shadow's after the jump. Wikipedia has Pitiless Rain as the last Black Company book, release date unknown. Based on a passage from Port of Shadows, an non-Y2K compliant crystal ball, and a whole lot of wild speculation, I think Pitiless Rain is going to be a *prequel* to The Black Company. "But Matt," you say, "we already have a post-White Rose short story: Bone Eaters!" Yup. Standalone, I think. S p o i l e r s a f t e r t h e j u m p . The phrase "pitiless rain" is made once by Croaker towards the end of the novel, in a throwaway line about his childhood.

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Re: [Glencook-fans] 13 days until Port of Shadows...
by Matt Cutter 13 Sep '18

13 Sep '18

NO takebacks! :) I have two Kindle books drop last night. Port of Shadows was second, so I'm only now getting into it. -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 9/11/18, Michele Riccio <mishka_30(a)yahoo.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] 13 days until Port of Shadows... To: glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com, "Matt Cutter" <thorr_kan(a)yahoo.com> Date: Tuesday, September 11, 2018, 6:11 PM but...but... I love Christmas cards. :-( Hope you all have your pre-orders and downloads now. I shall console myself over a lack of Christmas cards by finishing the book tonight On Monday, September 10, 2018, 4:54:58 PM EDT, Matt Cutter via glencook-fans <glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: You are officially off the Christmas card list. :) I'm assuming the ebook drops at midnight. It will be very difficult not to have the Kindle app open and just read through the night tonight. -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 9/9/18, Michele Riccio via glencook-fans <glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] 13 days until Port of Shadows... To: glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com Date: Sunday, September 9, 2018, 12:56 PM My copy, pre-ordered from a local bookstore, came in yesterday! I spent a few hours curled up with Croaker and the old gang last night (Otto, Hagop, One Eye, Elmo, Silent, The Captain, Goblin). It was like a family reunion. OK, maybe not MY family, but A family :-)Quite happy to have Croaker back as the narrator. I'm not sure I'll be able to make any sort of unbiased judgement on the story because I am just so happy to have more Black Company right now. mr On Thursday, September 6, 2018, 6:40:05 PM EDT, saulamca--- via glencook-fans <glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: Join the company. Waiting without patience. Re started the Black Company. Just to prepare myself. Happy Daze Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Thursday, September 6, 2018, Matt Cutter via glencook-fans <glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: I can wait until Tuesday, right? RIGHT? Maybe not... I know! I'll reread the Dread Empire series while I wait. WHAT DO YOU MEAN only the Empire Unacquainted with Defeat and Wrath of Kings are the only omnibuses available in Kindle format?! Crap. -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 8/30/18, BRADLEY STILWELL <bucbradstill(a)yahoo.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] 13 days until Port of Shadows... To: "Matt Cutter" <thorr_kan(a)yahoo.com> Date: Thursday, August 30, 2018, 8:24 AM GAH! It's killing me! That said, I'm wondering if this is the last Glen Cook ever. I'll be sad if it is. Have to try and read slowly (like that'll happen!) On Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 6:57:09 PM MDT, Matt Cutter via glencook-fans <glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: I'm not anxious. Really. _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans

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Re: [Glencook-fans] 5E Black Company RPG
by Matt Cutter 11 Sep '18

11 Sep '18

Makes perfect sense. I created a d20 BCCS character how made First Magnitude and maxed out levels in Spirit Shaman and Artificer without ever taking a level of Wizard. Never ran him, but there you go... -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 9/10/18, David Ainsworth <Narsham(a)comcast.net> wrote: Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] 13 days until Port of Shadows... To: "Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author" <glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Monday, September 10, 2018, 10:08 PM On my test runs, all four characters chose to have at least a little magic. Everyone has something useful they can do: one character went for Pass without Trace, for example, while another took the Detect Magic/Identify set. The Wizard is still much better at using magic, but the whole group can have a little. David On 9/10/2018 3:59 PM, Matt Cutter via glencook-fans wrote: > David, > > I've had time to do a quick read over. No discussion of the magic system. That will have to weight until I have more time. > > You're using a combination of the 5E DnD and d20 BCCS for classes. Good. That will help preserve the feel of the Black Company. > > You're using archetypes to mimic the d20 prestige classes. I like that too. I especially like Dabbler, Hedge Wizard, and Spirit Shaman. Why should Wizards have all the fun? > -------------------------------------------- > On Thu, 9/6/18, David Ainsworth <Narsham(a)comcast.net> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] 13 days until Port of Shadows... > To: "Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author" <glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: Thursday, September 6, 2018, 10:53 PM > > To tide everyone over: while > I've not completed the conversion yet, > here's the "in-progress" > conversion of the Black Company RPG rules to > D&D 5E. > > You'll need to refer to the 5E rules, > replacing character design with > the > characters here. The system handles injury/death, > archetypes, and > magic differently. I > don't have full details of the item system (Black > Company uses exceptional items, not magical > items), and haven't started > the mass > combat rules, but everything else is functional. > > Magic talents all refer to > spells from the 5E Player's Handbook; those > familar with the D&D 3E rules will find > magic considerably simplified. > > Rules can be found here: > https://www.dropbox.com/s/zn6rov51sfk3gcd/5EBlackCompany.docx?dl=0 > > David > > _______________________________________________ > glencook-fans mailing list > glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans > > > _______________________________________________ > glencook-fans mailing list > glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans

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Re: [Glencook-fans] 13 days until Port of Shadows...
by Matt Cutter 11 Sep '18

11 Sep '18

You are officially off the Christmas card list. :) I'm assuming the ebook drops at midnight. It will be very difficult not to have the Kindle app open and just read through the night tonight. -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 9/9/18, Michele Riccio via glencook-fans <glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] 13 days until Port of Shadows... To: glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com Date: Sunday, September 9, 2018, 12:56 PM My copy, pre-ordered from a local bookstore, came in yesterday! I spent a few hours curled up with Croaker and the old gang last night (Otto, Hagop, One Eye, Elmo, Silent, The Captain, Goblin). It was like a family reunion. OK, maybe not MY family, but A family :-)Quite happy to have Croaker back as the narrator. I'm not sure I'll be able to make any sort of unbiased judgement on the story because I am just so happy to have more Black Company right now. mr On Thursday, September 6, 2018, 6:40:05 PM EDT, saulamca--- via glencook-fans <glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: Join the company. Waiting without patience. Re started the Black Company. Just to prepare myself. Happy Daze Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Thursday, September 6, 2018, Matt Cutter via glencook-fans <glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: I can wait until Tuesday, right? RIGHT? Maybe not... I know! I'll reread the Dread Empire series while I wait. WHAT DO YOU MEAN only the Empire Unacquainted with Defeat and Wrath of Kings are the only omnibuses available in Kindle format?! Crap. -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 8/30/18, BRADLEY STILWELL <bucbradstill(a)yahoo.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] 13 days until Port of Shadows... To: "Matt Cutter" <thorr_kan(a)yahoo.com> Date: Thursday, August 30, 2018, 8:24 AM GAH! It's killing me! That said, I'm wondering if this is the last Glen Cook ever. I'll be sad if it is. Have to try and read slowly (like that'll happen!) On Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 6:57:09 PM MDT, Matt Cutter via glencook-fans <glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: I'm not anxious. Really. _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans(a)mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans -----Inline Attachment Follows-----

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