Re: [Fractint] FOTD 17-11-02 (The Bluest Atom [5])
At 09:35 PM 11/19/02 +1300, Morgan Owens wrote: <snipped>
...relativistic effects alter the electrons' orbits sufficiently that the energy gap between the atom's d and s shells is narrowed, and the deeper shell (the d) becomes affected by interactions that (non-relativistically) would only affect the s shell. The energy absorption band is pulled into the visible part of the spectrum, and so gold takes on the color "silver minus blue"....
A very...ummm...interesting point. But it does not describe the creation of color. It describes how the *frequency* of electromagnetic radiation in the visual range is affected by relativistic effects in atoms. Color itself is a subjective sensation in the mind. It does not exist until the radiation reaches the mind via the eyes, optic nerve, and visual cortex. Jim (always subjective) Muth
Jim Muth wrote:
Color itself is a subjective sensation in the mind. It does not exist until the radiation reaches the mind via the eyes, optic nerve, and visual cortex.
A couple of days ago you said that the problem was that "Actual atoms, the kind that the world is composed of, have no color. They are far too small. An object's color is determined by the wave length of the visible light that it reflects most strongly. But atoms do not reflect light at all." So now you're saying colour is not determined by wavelength? Morgan L. Owens "Gee, I'm losing. Let's change the rules."
On 20 Nov 02, at 13:48, Morgan L. Owens wrote:
Jim Muth wrote:
Color itself is a subjective sensation in the mind. It does not exist until the radiation reaches the mind via the eyes, optic nerve, and visual cortex.
A couple of days ago you said that the problem was that
"Actual atoms, the kind that the world is composed of, have no color. They are far too small. An object's color is determined by the wave length of the visible light that it reflects most strongly. But atoms do not reflect light at all."
So now you're saying colour is not determined by wavelength?
Actually, color is *not* determined by wavelength. Color is a neurological/psychological phenomenon, primarily the product of a certain small processing center in the brain. Check out a book called "An Anthropologist on Mars," a collection of essays by a neurosurgeon about patients he has studied, including a professional artist who suffered an injury to that particular processing center and no longer saw color correctly. There seems to be some indication that our perception of color is partly learned from those around us. David gnome@hawaii.rr.com
Actually, color is *not* determined by wavelength.
There seems to be some indication that our perception of color is partly learned from those around us.
If color is not determined by wavelength, then how is it determined? I can't buy into the 'learned from others' routine. To me, that says that a person does not see color unless they are told to see color. It just doesn't make sense. I don't believe that color is just some mass hallucination. I think that the perception of color is stated in regard to the perception of the meaning of color. (Like red = hot, blue = cold...) Green with envy, Mark.
On 20 Nov 02, at 8:16, Mark A. Freeze wrote:
Actually, color is *not* determined by wavelength.
There seems to be some indication that our perception of color is partly learned from those around us.
If color is not determined by wavelength, then how is it determined? I can't buy into the 'learned from others' routine. To me, that says that a person does not see color unless they are told to see color.
No! People perceive color (there are actually two little- known brain centers involved), but what we see as "red" (for example) is learned from what we are told is red. Read the essay ("The Case of the Color Blind Painter") in the book I mentioned by Oliver Sacks, or check into the neurology of color processing in the brain. David gnome@hawaii.rr.com
Jim Muth wrote:
A very...ummm...interesting point. But it does not describe the creation of color. It describes how the *frequency* of electromagnetic radiation in the visual range is affected by relativistic effects in atoms. Color itself is a subjective sensation in the mind. It does not exist until the radiation reaches the mind via the eyes, optic nerve, and visual cortex.
I've been waiting for someone to point out that this is identical to the 'tree falling in the forest' thing. It all depends on how you define sound (or color): is it what happens in your head when your senses detect real-world phenomina such as compressed waves of air (or photons of specific energies)? Or is it the real-world phenomina. Or could it be *both*, and which you *mean* depends on context? -- |_ CJSonnack <Chris@Sonnack.com> _____________| How's my programming? | |_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL | |_____________________________________________|_______________________|
participants (5)
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David Jones -
Jim Muth -
Mark A. Freeze -
Morgan L. Owens -
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