Hey, this is fun! It seems to me that culture has a great impact on color perception. Ancient Navaho had a color perception that differs from those in the modern world - their rainbow had only five colors, where we all 'know' that there are seven. They had several different colors for what we would today look at and call black, i.e., the black of soot and the black of the night sky were different colors, as different as blue and yellow are to us. Or, should I say, "To me". I don't want to speak for anybody else here ;-) Oliver Sacks had another book of interest on this subject, "The Island of the Color Blind" is the title, as I recall. And in "The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat" I believe that he writes of an artist who loses his color vision due to a central nervous system trauma. Evidently he not only lost the ability to see in color, but lost the concept of color itself. Unlike a man who might lose his hearing, but remember the sounds of things heard in the past, this poor soul (who's livelihood depended on his art) forgot what colors looked like. Marty K. On Wednesday, November 20, 2002, at 11:08 AM, Mark A. Freeze wrote:
I have no scientific basis for my thoughts on this matter, however, my opinion is this: Being punched in the eye and seeing color is entirely different than recognizing that the can of Coke on my desk is of a red color. I also disagree with the statement that I recognize that the coke can is a different shade of red than the red barrel of my pen just because someone 'suggested' that it was darker, or by some subliminal implantation of shading when I was younger. If color, at some point is not waveform, then when I make a black mark on my Coke can with a marker is that just imagination that I see? If color is subjective, how do we all know that a stop sign is red? By the shape? If things are that subjective, how would we ever know that our Ziploc's are sealed with the blue-and-yellow-make-green seal? If we thought the bag was sealed, regardless of its state, wouldn't we see it as green?
I think that in this case everyone may be right. That some color is waveform, some is imagined, and some are derived from visual trickery like the spinning wheel effect.
Regards, Mark.
-----Original Message----- From: fractint-admin@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:fractint-admin@mailman.xmission.com]On Behalf Of John Wilson Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 11:35 AM To: fractint@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Fractint] FOTD 17-11-02 (The Bluest Atom [5])
For once I have to agree with Jim regarding the subjective experience of color, and cross swords with Morgan's dogmatic statements. Anybody who has ever been at the receiving end of a sharp smack in the eye can testify to the subjectivity of color perception. Then too there is the persistent green retinal image "seen" after staring at a bright red one for a while. Also there are the colors "seen" as the result of the smoking or ingestion of certain vegetable derivatives, which colored a good deal of the 1960's culture! None of these phenomena are due to electromagnetic radiation of any wavelength. I submit that the mind pulls these "colors" out of memory to assign labels to otherwise indescribable sensations. Similar to those odors which "taste" like something one knows.
John W.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Muth" <jamth@mindspring.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 8:07 AM Subject: RE: [Fractint] FOTD 17-11-02 (The Bluest Atom [5])
At 08:16 AM 11/20/02 -0600, Mark Freeze wrote:
<snipped>
...If color is not determined by wavelength, then how is it determined?...
It is largely determined by the wave length of the light striking the retina of the eye. But the situation is not so simple. The sensation of color can also be produced by a white light that flickers on and off at the proper rate. I have seen strong color by staring at a white sky through the blades of a rotating exhaust fan. And we have all seen those disks with black and white patterns on them that create the impression of color when spun at the proper rate. In these cases, the color most certainly exists only in the mind.
Jim M.
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