May 2015 - Fractint - mailman.xmission.com

Re: [Fractint] Slashdot deep zooming
by Roger Kaufman 08 May '15

08 May '15

Paul wrote... > I have it listed within my database of fractal applications and their users. But my online listing only shows a small number of the actual total available, because of the quantity involved (over 600). I list only those programs with the most users, starting at the top of the list and working my way down. I don't think much gets past you, Paul, and I thought you may have known of it. David wrote... > I was going to test that since I have 64-bit Java on 64-bit Linux, but > it looks like it's Windows-only? From what I've seen it has to be developed in Windows so it is probably stuck in Windows. There is no problems created from having 64-bit java and 32-bit java both installed in Windows. So I have tried Mandel Machine. Upping the iteration limits really got my PC fans going. It is based on a new concept of generating the Mandelbrot fractal so I did some research on it. Apparently there has been some recent advances in fractal math. Pixels are calculated based on values from adjacent pixels. But this wasn't always giving valid values. Last year there was a breakthrough to get rid of these glitches, although they have to be found first then corrected. Not being highly adept in math, this is all I know. http://fractalmonster.deviantart.com/journal/New-Revolutionary-Algorithm-fo… http://dinkydauset.deviantart.com/journal/Perturbation-for-the-Mandelbrot-s… There is another program that also uses the new algorithm but it is also a windows program. http://chillheimer.de/kallesfraktaler/ The outstanding question is whether this is trickery or not. If the values end up being the same at each coordinate as the hard calculations then it really is a breakthrough. The major limitation then is that this only works for the Mandelbrot fractal. For that reason making zoom movies of various fractals with Fractint is still quite alive and well.

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Re: [Fractint] Slashdot deep zooming
by Roger Kaufman 08 May '15

08 May '15

Hey JOT, On 5/7/2015 2:00 PM, fractint-request(a)mailman.xmission.com wrote: > I suspect treachery. Just think about it - the math behind each Mandelbrot pixel. And doing that with a number with hundreds or thousands of decimals. No. > > There are "shortcut" methods and algorithm hacks to do it , like "interpolating" between 2 images. I am a purist - do it right or it don't count! > > FractInt has some real tight "C" and "ASM" code - and it took me 3 years on several systems to get past E+100. It is possible. Looking into his discussion area he mentions "Mandel Machine". https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsRbcv18VcWJVtfAtbKV1Vw/discussion Mandel Machine looks like it is a high precision fractal explorer which I don't see on Paul Lee's list. Looking at the history they mention using 80 bit precision. I have tried running it but it uses 64 bit Java and I have 32 bit. I am debating installing 64 bit as the claim they can co-exist but I want to do more research on that. http://web.t-online.hu/kbotond/mandelmachine/ There are ways to get much higher, even open ended precision. The GMP library can do this and I am sure while they have made it efficient, there has to be payback to performance. https://gmplib.org/ While I have the utmost respect for Fractint, it as a legacy system. For any fractal program writers out there, this question. Can your program exceed the efficiency of Fractint, i.e. draw a fractal faster at the same resolution? If so, what resources did you use to do it?

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Re: [Fractint] Slashdot deep zooming; Calculation efficiency
by David Jones 08 May '15

08 May '15

Plus access to more memory and faster access to it (vs DOS' extended/expanded method)? David W. Jones gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com On May 7, 2015 6:47 PM, Hal Lane <hallane(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > > > For any fractal program writers out there, this question. > > Can your program exceed the efficiency of Fractint, i.e. > > draw a fractal faster at the same resolution? > > If so, what resources did you use to do it? > > I'm told (I forget by whom) that the primary speedup used > in today's fractal programs is using multiple CPU cores > simultaneously... > > - Hal Lane > > ######################## > # hallane(a)earthlink.net > ######################## > > -----Original Message----- > From: Fractint [mailto:fractint-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of > Roger Kaufman > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2015 2:46 PM > To: fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: Re: [Fractint] Slashdot deep zooming > > Hey JOT, > > On 5/7/2015 2:00 PM, fractint-request(a)mailman.xmission.com wrote: > > I suspect treachery. Just think about it - the math behind each Mandelbrot > pixel. And doing that with a number with hundreds or thousands of decimals. > No. > > > > There are "shortcut" methods and algorithm hacks to do it , like > "interpolating" between 2 images. I am a purist - do it right or it don't > count! > > > > FractInt has some real tight "C" and "ASM" code - and it took me 3 years > on several systems to get past E+100. > > It is possible. > > Looking into his discussion area he mentions "Mandel Machine". > > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsRbcv18VcWJVtfAtbKV1Vw/discussion > > Mandel Machine looks like it is a high precision fractal explorer which I > don't see on Paul Lee's list. Looking at the history they mention using 80 > bit precision. I have tried running it but it uses 64 bit Java and I have 32 > bit. I am debating installing 64 bit as the claim they can co-exist but I > want to do more research on that. > > http://web.t-online.hu/kbotond/mandelmachine/ > > There are ways to get much higher, even open ended precision. The GMP > library can do this and I am sure while they have made it efficient, there > has to be payback to performance. > > https://gmplib.org/ > > > While I have the utmost respect for Fractint, it as a legacy system. For any > fractal program writers out there, this question. Can your program exceed > the efficiency of Fractint, i.e. draw a fractal faster at the same > resolution? If so, what resources did you use to do it? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Fractint mailing list > Fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fractint > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > http://www.avast.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Fractint mailing list > Fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fractint

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Re: [Fractint] Slashdot deep zooming; Calculation efficiency
by Hal Lane 08 May '15

08 May '15

> For any fractal program writers out there, this question. > Can your program exceed the efficiency of Fractint, i.e. > draw a fractal faster at the same resolution? > If so, what resources did you use to do it? I'm told (I forget by whom) that the primary speedup used in today's fractal programs is using multiple CPU cores simultaneously... - Hal Lane ######################## # hallane(a)earthlink.net ######################## -----Original Message----- From: Fractint [mailto:fractint-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kaufman Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2015 2:46 PM To: fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Fractint] Slashdot deep zooming Hey JOT, On 5/7/2015 2:00 PM, fractint-request(a)mailman.xmission.com wrote: > I suspect treachery. Just think about it - the math behind each Mandelbrot pixel. And doing that with a number with hundreds or thousands of decimals. No. > > There are "shortcut" methods and algorithm hacks to do it , like "interpolating" between 2 images. I am a purist - do it right or it don't count! > > FractInt has some real tight "C" and "ASM" code - and it took me 3 years on several systems to get past E+100. It is possible. Looking into his discussion area he mentions "Mandel Machine". https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsRbcv18VcWJVtfAtbKV1Vw/discussion Mandel Machine looks like it is a high precision fractal explorer which I don't see on Paul Lee's list. Looking at the history they mention using 80 bit precision. I have tried running it but it uses 64 bit Java and I have 32 bit. I am debating installing 64 bit as the claim they can co-exist but I want to do more research on that. http://web.t-online.hu/kbotond/mandelmachine/ There are ways to get much higher, even open ended precision. The GMP library can do this and I am sure while they have made it efficient, there has to be payback to performance. https://gmplib.org/ While I have the utmost respect for Fractint, it as a legacy system. For any fractal program writers out there, this question. Can your program exceed the efficiency of Fractint, i.e. draw a fractal faster at the same resolution? If so, what resources did you use to do it? _______________________________________________ Fractint mailing list Fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fractint --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

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Slashdot deep zooming
by JackOfTradeZ＠comcast.net 07 May '15

07 May '15

. I suspect treachery. Just think about it - the math behind each Mandelbrot pixel. And doing that with a number with hundreds or thousands of decimals. No. There are "shortcut" methods and algorithm hacks to do it , like "interpolating" between 2 images. I am a purist - do it right or it don't count! FractInt has some real tight "C" and "ASM" code - and it took me 3 years on several systems to get past E+100. WTF .

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Re: [Fractint] Test
by James R McKenzie 06 May '15

06 May '15

Still here also (in lurker mode). -----Original Message----- >From: alex dukay <alex.dukay(a)bell.net> >Sent: May 6, 2015 11:26 AM >To: Fractint and General Fractals Discussion <fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com> >Subject: Re: [Fractint] Test > >I am here as well >Alex Dukay >> On May 6, 2015, at 2:45 AM, David Jones <gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com> wrote: >> >> Alive here but haven't seen anything but John's note below for awhile. >> >> David W. Jones >> gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com >> authenticity, honesty, community >> http://dancingtreefrog.com >> >> On May 5, 2015 3:20 PM, John Wilson <1stdiscus(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Alive maybe. ZZZ ZZZ ZZZ. >>> >>> On 5 May 2015 at 14:23, Jim Muth <jimmuth(a)earthlink.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Fractal fans: >>>> >>>> I'm still here, but I have received no e-mails >>>> from the list in a couple weeks. This is a test >>>> to see if the list is still alive and if I'm >>>> still subscribed. >>>> >>>> Jim M >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Fractint mailing list >>>> Fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com >>>> https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fractint >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Fractint mailing list >>> Fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com >>> https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fractint >> _______________________________________________ >> Fractint mailing list >> Fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com >> https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fractint > > >_______________________________________________ >Fractint mailing list >Fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com >https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fractint

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Slashdot deep zooming post
by JackOfTradeZ＠comcast.net 06 May '15

06 May '15

. Yeah he's a bit behind the curve; I made the first "universe" viddie to E+27 over 10 years ago. It took 3 years to render my deepest zoom to E+112. I don't think it's practical to try E+1600 or more with fractint. On youtube and elsewhere on the web there are zooms claiming to be in the E+(thousands) range; but I think they use "trickery" to do it. .

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Re: [Fractint] Test
by David Jones 06 May '15

06 May '15

Alive here but haven't seen anything but John's note below for awhile. David W. Jones gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com On May 5, 2015 3:20 PM, John Wilson <1stdiscus(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Alive maybe. ZZZ ZZZ ZZZ. > > On 5 May 2015 at 14:23, Jim Muth <jimmuth(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > > > Fractal fans: > > > > I'm still here, but I have received no e-mails > > from the list in a couple weeks. This is a test > > to see if the list is still alive and if I'm > > still subscribed. > > > > Jim M > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Fractint mailing list > > Fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com > > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fractint > > > _______________________________________________ > Fractint mailing list > Fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fractint

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I'm alive, but working like three one-armed paper hangers...
by Hal Lane 06 May '15

06 May '15

I'm alive, but working like three one-armed paper hangers... - Hal Lane ######################## # hallane(a)earthlink.net ######################## --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

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